Recoil recovery analysis

[barnfrog]

I've been shooting long guns for 40+ years, but handguns only occasionally during that time. Recently I picked up a Ruger Blackhawk and have started to shoot my S&W Model 17 a lot more in my initial stages of trying to increase my ability with revolvers so that I can hunt responsibly with them.

One thing I noticed when sighting in the .22 off a bench and bags is that after every shot the sights initially settle out of alignment, off slightly to the left. Not by a whole lot; the front sight is still mostly or entirely within the aperture of the rear sight, but I definitely need to re-align for the next shot. I have read quite a bit about target group analysis, but I don't recall seeing much about analyzing how the gun recovers to help assess shooting technique.

I guess to boil the question down: if I am using proper shooting technique (grip, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger press, etc.), should the gun naturally settle back to the original sight alignment and picture? Or are there things other than my inputs that will cause the gun not to go perfectly straight up and back during recoil and come straight forward and down on recovery? Perhaps forces imposed by the twist of the rifling or something else that are more pronounced with handguns than they are with rifles? The fact that the sights are always off to the left upon recovery at least tells me my technique is pretty consistent.

It might also be useful to note that I've been doing a lot of dry firing practice, and have gotten pretty good (at least it SEEMS so to me) at pressing the trigger without disturbing my sight alignment and picture.

Thanks for any thoughts anyone cares to offer.

 

[Kleanbore]

Or are there things other than my inputs that will cause the gun not to go perfectly straight up and back during recoil and come straight forward and down on recovery?

Rifling.

 

[Riomouse911]

Are you using a one handed grip with the right hand only when shooting off the bag? The shape and action of our hands may push the gun left a bit as it holds the gun as it recoils…especially with only one hand doing the work.

Clenching the whole hand as the trigger is being pulled may also help with moving the gun left right as it’s fired. (Often it’s a very slight, involuntary flinch in anticipation of recoil) This doesn’t manifest itself much during dry fire since you know it’s unloaded and won’t buck and bark. Put some snap caps into the cylinder in random order and you’ll see if you’re anticipating when you click on one.

Rifling torque can also add some twist to the gun as the bullet is fired and heads down the bore.

(My astigmatism naturally moves my bullet impact left, so my sights are adjusted accordingly (when possible) or my sight picture is altered to compensate. I don’t think this it’s the issue you’re describing, but it is one thing that I’ve had to learn since it’s much more obvious with handguns than long guns for me.)

Stay safe.

 

[.38 Special]

I've used full-house competition guns with compensators which settled right back down on target, with a hard two-hand hold.

Every other handgun I've ever fired torqued one way or the other due to rifling twist.

Leave it to a rifleman to parse it down to the last detail.

 

[.38 Special]

I will say, for what it is worth, that a mistake made by many beginners is to hold the gun too far down the grip. This can exacerbate any torque effect. As a general rule of thumb, a handgun should be gripped high and hard. You don't need to hold a light-recoiling gun in a death grip, but "firm handshake" territory is a good starting place. And just about any handgun wants to be gripped as high up as possible, well into the top of the web of the hand.

 

[barnfrog]

Thanks for the help, guys. I should clarify that right now I'm only shooting the Model 17. The Ruger is still with my FFL friend until it is legally added to my permit.

Are you using a one handed grip with the right hand only when shooting off the bag? The shape and action of our hands may push the gun left a bit as it holds the gun as it recoils…especially with only one hand doing the work.

Clenching the whole hand as the trigger is being pulled may also help with moving the gun left right as it’s fired. (Often it’s a very slight, involuntary flinch in anticipation of recoil) This doesn’t manifest itself much during dry fire since you know it’s unloaded and won’t buck and bark. Put some snap caps into the cylinder in random order and you’ll see if you’re anticipating when you click on one.

Two-handed grip. Since I'm only shooting the .22 right now, I don't think recoil anticipation is a big factor, but it wouldn't hurt to try the snap cap idea.

I will say, for what it is worth, that a mistake made by many beginners is to hold the gun too far down the grip. This can exacerbate any torque effect. As a general rule of thumb, a handgun should be gripped high and hard. You don't need to hold a light-recoiling gun in a death grip, but "firm handshake" territory is a good starting place. And just about any handgun wants to be gripped as high up as possible, well into the top of the web of the hand.

Here's a picture of my grip. Feels pretty high to me when I'm holding it, but it's not all the way up in that beaver tail curve.



I tend to grip slightly more firmly with my support hand, which allows me to relax the trigger hand just a little bit to concentrate on pressing straight back. I've never read that anywhere; I think it comes from the same idea as laying my thumb next to the stock instead of wrapping it around when shooting rifles.

 

[.38 Special]

Here's a picture of my grip. Feels pretty high to me when I'm holding it, but it's not all the way up in that beaver tail curve.

View attachment 1056286

I tend to grip slightly more firmly with my support hand, which allows me to relax the trigger hand just a little bit to concentrate on pressing straight back. I've never read that anywhere; I think it comes from the same idea as laying my thumb next to the stock instead of wrapping it around when shooting rifles.

I would hold the gun higher - when cocked, the hammer can be touching, or very close to touching, the web of your hand. I also would grip the gun quite firmly with the shooting hand. "Firm handshake" territory at the low end and "almost tight enough to cause tremor, but not quite" on the high end. With time, your trigger finger will learn to operate independently of even a very tight grip.

None of that, by the way, is completely necessary for a .22, but it really helps when the recoil ante starts going up. It also will help bring the gun back down more consistently.

Having said that, you really are overthinking this, rifle guy.

 

[murf]

pressing the trigger without disturbing my sight alignment and picture.

continue pressing the trigger until you have about ten pounds of pressure on the trigger. check and see if you pull the front sight off to the left as you get to ten pounds. this will be the effect of recoil on your sight alignment.

luck,

murf

 

[jmorris]

I guess to boil the question down: if I am using proper shooting technique (grip, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger press, etc.), should the gun naturally settle back to the original sight alignment and picture?

What the goal is, is the deciding factor upon what technique I choose.

If I am hunting something, normally the priority is where the shot is going to go, not where the sight picture is going, after the bullet is sent down range.

If your sight picture is landing above, below, right and left, of where you had been aiming but all projectiles went through the same hole, I’d find something else to worry about.

 

[barnfrog]

Having said that, you really are overthinking this, rifle guy.

I will readily admit to having that tendency.

If your sight picture is landing above, below, right and left, of where you had been aiming but all projectiles went through the same hole, I’d find something else to worry about.

Point taken.

 

[Leon tP]

...
One thing I noticed when sighting in the .22 off a bench and bags is that after every shot the sights initially settle out of alignment, off slightly to the left. Not by a whole lot; the front sight is still mostly or entirely within the aperture of the rear sight, but I definitely need to re-align for the next shot. help assess shooting technique.

I guess to boil the question down: if I am using proper shooting technique (grip, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger press, etc.), should the gun naturally settle back to the original sight alignment and picture? Or are there things other than my inputs that will cause the gun not to go perfectly straight up and back during recoil and come straight forward and down on recovery? Perhaps forces imposed by the twist of the rifling or something else that are more pronounced with handguns than they are with rifles? The fact that the sights are always off to the left upon recovery at least tells me my technique is pretty consistent.
...
It might also be useful to note that I've been doing a lot of dry firing practice, and have gotten pretty good (at least it SEEMS so to me) at pressing the trigger without disturbing my sight alignment and picture.

Thanks for any thoughts anyone cares to offer.

Without actually seeing you shoot, I can only guess but here goes.
1) You're letting the gun "bounce" off the bag and an uneven hold is causing the slight misalignment.
2) You could be flinching and not know it.
3) Your grip might not be ideal -- uneven. One hand applying more pressure than the other.

Again, without actually seeing you shoot, I'm only guessing.

Keep dry firing, it really is good practice. Focus on keeping an even but firm grip on both sides. In time muscle memory will get you where you want to be.

Good luck