Red Dot in the 45-70

Status
Not open for further replies.
JustsayMo

JustsayMo

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
1,458
Location
the Evergreen State
www.gmdr.com has some interesting low velocity cast bullet loads posted so I decided to do some experiementation with their accurate RED Dot load under a 405 gr Oregon Trail Laser-Cast bullet. I'm not a big fan of Red Dot in anything I had tried prior to this so my expectations were low.

Marlin 1895 22" barrel Open Sights Front Rested. Targets at 50 yards. 405g Oregon Trail FP bullet, 11 gr of Red Dot, WLR, W-W cases (well used), COL 2.530" Roll crimp (seperate operation), RCBS dies.

Ten shot string; 1036 fps, SD=7.34. All ten shots in 1-1/4" group Center to center. Shoots 2" higher and slightly to the left of my IMR 4198 loads zeroed right on at 50 yards. Burns VERY clean. Mild report and recoil.

At 100 yards I was able to put 5 inside of 3" but I would predict a better result if the rifle was scoped. 100 yards and open sights is pushing the limits of my ability.
 
100 yards and open sights is pushing the ability of a lot of us with old eyes... The .45-70 is the next rifle that I want to buy and if I can use Red Dot with it, I would be quite happy. I have about 8 lbs of it left. That only works out to be 965 ft-lbs though. Do you have any higher powered loading data with Red Dot in the .45-70?


Yeah, I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but it relates to exactly what I was interested in and no one else posted a reply to it...
 
CollinLeon,

You might try Trail Boss in the .45-70. While it won't be the fastest, it will probably be the most accurate of the light loads with cast bullets. I've used it with bullets as light as 300 grains and as heavy as 420 grains. I swear I could run faster to the target, but they all cluster into tight little groups when the bullet finally gets there.

For my hunting loads with my 1895 Marlin, I use the Remington 405 gr. JSP bullet (bulk packed) and IMR 3031. It's a stomper of a load, but the Northern Alberta moose I shot with it was dead on the spot, with hardly any loss of meat. The same load is going elk hunting with me over Thanksgiving week.

And yes, this was a long dead post.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I've seen ONE moose in the wild before and it was when I was in Utah on a ski trip. The moose walked so close to me that I could have probably beat him to death with a club instead of having to shoot him. Are all moose this oblivious?

Around here, the biggest game we have are wild boars. The fact that they will sometimes charge you after being shot makes it a bit more interesting than our deer which will run away if you don't drop them immediately with the shot. Those boar tusks will make you think about whether the nearest tree is climbable... :)

Do you have any chrono data on those loads?
 
I have to wonder if some pull-down .50 BMG powder might work acceptably though in the .45-70 with a 32" barrel. That's about the length of barrel in various .50 BMG rifles and the heavy .45-70 bullets are kind of close to what the lower weight .50 BMG bullets might be...
 
Bullet weight, si.
Expansion ratio, no.

The .45-70 is a straight case and does not handle slow burning powders well.
There has been some work done with a case full of 4831 etc and it shoots about like black. With nearly as much fouling, too.
 
The moose we were hunting were as wary as elk or deer, since they're hunted a lot. It would take a lot of beating to kill a moose, and would probably only make him mad. A mad moose would make your boars look like possums, since a large moose can break trees as big as my leg and just keep on going. They're about the size of a horse, with a bad attitude, though I have seen them act pretty stupid sometimes, like when they stand in the middle of the highway and just look at oncoming traffic.

My hunting load is clocking just over 1,825 fps. I could go a little higher, but when I was working up loads, the groups started opening up near maximum powder charges of IMR 3031. The 405 gr. JSP punches all the way through a moose, so there's really no need for more power. Hopefully, I'll be able to report how it does on elk, too.......

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
ReloaderFred said:
The moose we were hunting were as wary as elk or deer, since they're hunted a lot. It would take a lot of beating to kill a moose, and would probably only make him mad. A mad moose would make your boars look like possums, since a large moose can break trees as big as my leg and just keep on going. They're about the size of a horse, with a bad attitude, though I have seen them act pretty stupid sometimes, like when they stand in the middle of the highway and just look at oncoming traffic.

My hunting load is clocking just over 1,825 fps. I could go a little higher, but when I was working up loads, the groups started opening up near maximum powder charges of IMR 3031. The 405 gr. JSP punches all the way through a moose, so there's really no need for more power. Hopefully, I'll be able to report how it does on elk, too.......

Hope this helps.

Fred
Click to expand...
That's about 2995 ft-lbs... A nice socially acceptable about of kinetic energy... :) About the same as a 12-gauge shotgun with a 1 oz slug out of a 3" magnum shell, come to think of it...

I've heard of people getting very close to 4000 ft-lbs out of the .45-70 with modern rifles.
 
I have used 11.6 gr. Unique with a 405 gr. cast lead bullet - never chronographed the load but it's very soft shooting and accurate to 50 yards. I will try experimenting with Red Dot and chrono the loads.
 
TonyT said:
I have used 11.6 gr. Unique with a 405 gr. cast lead bullet - never chronographed the load but it's very soft shooting and accurate to 50 yards. I will try experimenting with Red Dot and chrono the loads.
Click to expand...
And who said that 5 year old threads can't serve a purpose !!!
 
I've used Unique under cast 350's (RD bullets)...I don't remember the exact powder charge I used (don't have my load book in front of me)....but the velocity was 1,175 fps and they were VERY accurate.

Somebody asked about 2400 in the 45-70, its GREAT....slightly more powerful than the Unique/Red Dot/etc. type powders...which can be a good thing.
 
That was the reason I brought it up. He said he wanted something faster then what Red Dot could do. I've never loaded 45-70 but BD & 2400 seemed like they would be a good choice.
 
Well, as it turned out, instead of getting the H&R "Buffalo Classic" single-shot with the 32" barrel, I ended up getting a Marlin 1895GS with a Nikon scope... I guess that's a better fit for my old eyes anyway... :) Maybe one of these days I'll come across a good deal on the H&R...

marlin-1895gs.png

Looks like I need to order a set of dies, a mold, and some brass so I can get to casting and reloading...

Sound like I will start with 11gr of Red Dot and work up from there with a bullet in the 300-400gr range...
 
Last edited:
As my handle on this fourm suggests, I like the 45-70 :) . That said, I've never used RD in this caliber. But Unique, BD, HS6, 2400, and W231 along with TB all have given some good loadings in the past. Now I have settled on 15 gr. of Unique with a Meister 300 RNFP and I could not be happier. It cloverleafs at 50 and is under an inch and a half at 100. EASY recoil and it is about 1350 or so in my Marlin GG. This load stops hogs in their tracks!

Was using 15.7 gr. of TB and a Lee 340 cast that was simply fantastic. But as with all the moulds from Lee, it failed and went to the scrapheap. I mean I beat that mould to death with a hammer I was do mad! So I cast from my Lyman's and will buy the Meister 300's and enjoy myself.

And yes, this may have been a dead thread, but I'm glad it got a new lease on life!

Wade
 
AA5744 is much more bulky and I consider it a better large case propellant at cast bullet pressures and velocities than pistol powders.
 
45-70 Ranger said:
As my handle on this fourm suggests, I like the 45-70 :) . That said, I've never used RD in this caliber. But Unique, BD, HS6, 2400, and W231 along with TB all have given some good loadings in the past. Now I have settled on 15 gr. of Unique with a Meister 300 RNFP and I could not be happier. It cloverleafs at 50 and is under an inch and a half at 100. EASY recoil and it is about 1350 or so in my Marlin GG. This load stops hogs in their tracks!

Was using 15.7 gr. of TB and a Lee 340 cast that was simply fantastic. But as with all the moulds from Lee, it failed and went to the scrapheap. I mean I beat that mould to death with a hammer I was do mad! So I cast from my Lyman's and will buy the Meister 300's and enjoy myself.

And yes, this may have been a dead thread, but I'm glad it got a new lease on life!

Wade
Click to expand...
What do you mean that the Lee mold failed? I've got a few of the Lee molds (in handgun calibers) and they seem to produce good bullets...
 
I too had some bad luck with Lee molds. I did however buy a new one a few weeks ago. It was just a round ball mold though. I buy most of my molds from Tom at Accurate Molds. He provides great customer service and produces and excellent product.

I have some 400 grain gas checked bullets I cast from the new mold I just got from Tom a few weeks ago if you would like to try a 400 grain bullet. I thought I had a picture of it somewhere but all I could find is my new .452 mold.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN0052.jpg
    DSCN0052.jpg
    92.5 KB · Views: 11
Last edited:
Ah, well I've been casting my own since the early 60's. Always used Ideal, Lyman, or RCBS moulds without any problems ever. Then a year or so ago I got a Lee 340 2 cav. mould and the rear alignment pin fell out after 30 cast. Put the pin back in. Re-staked it and went on casting. Then the other pin fell out. It was one bad time after another. Bullets half wrinkled haft frosted in one. It simply was garbage. Lee sent me a new one (nice customer service) and I used it but it did not cast worth a hoot either. Got a 405 HB Lee mould thinking it might be better. It was after I used Kroil on it all the time to keep it going. But alas, the 340 2 cav. started casting like crap (again!). So it went to the anvil and got smashed to bits with a 10# sledge! The 405HB escaped the attack as it was already back in the box tossed up on a high shelf to be hidden from view forever.

The Marlin I'm using now perfers short bullets, and thus the purchase of the Meister 300 FP. I'm going to buy a Lyman 457191 as soon as I get a little extra in my pocket. I use some Lee dies and some of their reloading tool, but I will NEVER use a Lee mould ever again. Period. In my opinion they stink!

And before anyone starts yelling at me, I'll leave this detail: I was a professional gunsmith for decades. Was a Class 6 Ammo Mfg. and loaded for my PD and several others in the area. Have cast so many rounds for .38/.357, .41 Mag, .44 Spl/Mag, and .45ACP that I could sink a battleship with the lead I've cast over the years. Have cast my own in multiple calibers and never had a problem with IRON moulds. The aluminum moulds.....well, enough said. The element, Al, hates me, and that's fine as I hate it right back :)

Wade
 
You should try a brass mold from Tom at Accurate Molds. His aluminum molds are a far sight better than Lee's as well, they are literally twice the mold as a Lee. Both in size and quality. But after having ordered a brass mold from him for my 45-70 I could not help my self and ordered a second for my 45 auto.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

L
  • Locked
45-70 and Blue Dot
Replies
6
Views
2K
tbtrout
T
1KPerDay
  • Locked
Initial results with .38 Special 148 Bevel Base wadcutters and Trail Boss/Red Dot
Replies
4
Views
675
Walkalong
Walkalong
R
  • Locked
Red dot 9mm powder doses, for 124 gr. FMJ bullets.
Replies
3
Views
5K
LiveLife
LiveLife
R
  • Locked
30-30 pistol powder
Replies
3
Views
2K
res7s
R
Tallinar
  • Locked
45 Colt load data search - 250 gr XTP and Red Dot
Replies
8
Views
1K
murf
murf
Back
Top