Red dot & magnifier, or scope for 100-300 yards

[gym]

Been re-thinking my AR optics. I have an off brand Red Dot, "that works ok", and iron sights. Would I be better off with a better dot and magnifier, "which gets expensive", or a medium priced scope? I could still mount the old red dot on an offset bracket. Also I was watching a TV show, "strike back" and they seem to favor Aimpoints, although it's a TV show, it's still pretty accurate,with the weapons. The Eotech and Aimpoints are pricy, and adding their multiplier is even more expensive, is it superior to an inexpensive dot and 3-400 dollar scope?
From what I have noticed the Aimpoint seems to be sometimes be more forward mounted and a bit higher than the other. "I would guess leaving room for a suppressor. I am looking for the best of both worlds from the outcome, a medium range and close range weapon.

 

[Hanzo581]

Personally, I looked at an EoTech with 3x magnifier and when I realized it cost more than my rifle I passed and went with a 1-4x scope. Works just fine up close and at medium range for me.

Is it as fast as an EoTech would have been for up close target acquisition? I'd say no, but it is close.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Go with a Burris MTac or Tac30 1-4x scope.

I use an MTac on my 3 gun rifle, and I have used it on shots as close as 5 yards, and as far as 650 with great success.

 

[fallout mike]

Or maybe a fixed 3x optic?

 

[henschman]

I also highly recommend the Burris TAC30. The Weaver VX3 1-3x is also good glass if you want a cheaper option, but it lacks the illumination and BDC reticle, and has 1x less mag on the top end.

 

[adelbridge]

a red dot with a magnifier is going to "leak light" and not be as visible at first and last light, you are probably giving up about 10 minutes of usable daylight on each end with a magnifier vs a standard relief scope. 1-4X tend to have a small objective and a limited field of view. There are arguments that smaller objectives don't gather as much light. If it were my choice I would go 2-7X32. going from 1X to 2X on the bottom end wont cost you anything due to the larger field of view with 32mm objective vs industry standard approximate 24mm objective on 1-4X scope. The 1-4X is going to be somewhat lighter but if you choose rings wisely you can balance that out.

 

[cougar1717]

I have an eotech and it's good for its' niche: fast on the target, easy to use, durable. I kicked around getting the magnifier for a long time, but it just always seemed (to me) to be one of those in-between products. The sight has to move forward for the magnifier to have space. In this configuration, I didn't like where the sight would have to be if I shot it without the magnifier. (They make all sorts of quick release mounts now so this is less of a hassle.)
The other thing is that I'm not a 3-gunner or competition shooter. If I was, those burris combos mentioned (or any combo mount for a scope and reflex/red dot sight) would give you coverage for the extreme target disparity in competitions.
In the end, a 1-4x or 2-7x made a lot more sense to me when used with an extended scope mount. No batteries to maintain, but extremely close shots will just have to be made from the hip! Reminds me of good advice that I read on THR, "Remember, in the zombie apocalypse, your groups will be measured and scored."

 

[JustinJ]

The problem I have with magnifiers is the size of the reticle they create. For example, with a 3x magnifier and a 2mo Aimpoint your reticle is covering 6" at 100 yards and 18" at 300 yards. The etoech is better but a at 300 yards your reticle is covering a 9" circle over the target.

I'd go with a 1ish x 4 variable optic. Vortex and leupold have some good quality scopes at budget prices.

 

[Dr.Rob]

4x is plenty. It's not as precise as I might like, but hitting 10 inch targets at 400 yards is totally different than trying to zap a prairie dog between the eyes.

 

[Dean1818]

VXR 1x4 Leupold is great for that distance

Great glass

American made as well

I run one on my Bison Armory 6.8.....

Couldnt be happier

 

[itsa pain]

a red dot with a magnifier is going to "leak light" and not be as visible at first and last light, you are probably giving up about 10 minutes of usable daylight on each end with a magnifier vs a standard relief scope. 1-4X tend to have a small objective and a limited field of view. There are arguments that smaller objectives don't gather as much light. If it were my choice I would go 2-7X32. going from 1X to 2X on the bottom end wont cost you anything due to the larger field of view with 32mm objective vs industry standard approximate 24mm objective on 1-4X scope. The 1-4X is going to be somewhat lighter but if you choose rings wisely you can balance that out.

A 1x4x24 has plenty of light coming to the eye. The eye can just handle 5 on the scale. A 1x4x24 would be 4 divided into 24 gives you 6 on the exit pupil which is a little more then your eye can handle. field of view is limited.

 

[gym]

Can you gentlemen recommend more name and models for me to compare in the medium priced scope area. I assume that a mil dot is the way to go? Perhaps a 3-500 dollar range if possible. I only know what I read in the advertisements I receive from 3 dozen websites that fill my email on a daily basis, "they all seem good on paper".
It appears that a scope mounts rather easily on an m4, so that should not be a problem. I can shoot well, just need to practice my long gun skills. Been wrapped up in pistols for so so long.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Again, the Burris MTac is a great scope. It has a BDC that is set for .223/5.56 and it is pretty much dead on. The BDC is set for out to 600 yards, and in my shooting that regularly goes out that far, it is right on.

And use a Burris PEPR mount for it. That puts you at about $500 for the optic + mount.

 

[theblakester]

The problem I have with magnifiers is the size of the reticle they create. For example, with a 3x magnifier and a 2mo Aimpoint your reticle is covering 6" at 100 yards and 18" at 300 yards. The etoech is better but a at 300 yards your reticle is covering a 9" circle over the target.

I'd go with a 1ish x 4 variable optic. Vortex and leupold have some good quality scopes at budget prices.

The eotech is 1 MOA and although I can't break it down and explain it, even with a 3x magnifier behind it it will still appear 1 inch at 100 yards. I have one and read about it before I bought it. That's why I went with eotech over aim point.
That being said, if I had it to do over again I would have spent the money on a good 1-4 or 2-7 (probably a trijicon 1-4)

 

[aubie515]

As with most things in life..."IT DEPENDS" on what your needs/budget will be.

You don't need magnification to hit a target with a red dot from 100-300 yards. I know we shoot and hit my 10" steel plates out to 400 yards without magnification...now I'm not saying we get 100% hits, but I'd say the percentage is roughly 50% on a 10" target...so if you are looking at hitting a man sized torso, I'd say the percentage is going to be much higher...say 70%.

Adding a magnified optic will add more weight to your rig as well, so consider that when making your decision.

If you want precision, then you will want a magnified optic. If your goal is first round hits on a torso sized target...then an unmagnified red dot will suit your needs.

If it's just for pinking/range use...a Primary Arms/Bushnell TRS 25 will suit your needs...if you might use it to defend your life and your family's lives...I say you pony up and get an Aimpoint T1 with 2MOA dot.

 

[Hanzo581]

This is what I have, in a Burris PEPR mount and I really couldn't be happier with it. The scope is bigger than I anticipated it being though.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/millett-1-4-x-24-dms-multi-coat-rifle-scope-bk81002.html

 

[chicharrones]

The eotech is 1 MOA and although I can't break it down and explain it, even with a 3x magnifier behind it it will still appear 1 inch at 100 yards.

Probably because the target gets magnified by 3x just the same as the reticle. So, a 1 inch aiming point at 100 yards being magnified 3x is still a 1 inch aiming point.

 

[JPG19]

I'll throw my support out there for the 1-4x. I went with the Nikon M-223 w/ BDC reticle and couldn't be happier; BDC reticle and finger adjustable turrets = exactly what I was looking for.

 

[chicharrones]

That being said, if I had it to do over again I would have spent the money on a good 1-4 or 2-7 (probably a trijicon 1-4)

As much as I'd like an Eotech (without a magnifier in my case) my eyes just can't see tiny targets at 100 plus yards. I'm probably going to go with a 1-4x scope on my recently acquired AR as well. Best of both worlds I hope.

 

[chicharrones]

Do any of y'all have experience with the Burris AR-536 or the Burris AR-332 magnified "red dot" sights?

Gimmick or not?

 

[gym]

Good feedback as always, thanks.

 

[dmancornell]

If your budget allows, consider an illuminated Leupold VX6 1-6x. It is like a red dot at 1x with the illumination turned on, at 6x it is more than enough for 300 yard shots.

 

[KC.45]

If you go the 1-4x route you should really check out the vortex viper pst 1-4x24. They go for $499 and seem to have excellent reviews (I love mine) and the best warrantee in the business.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'd love to get a Burris 536 and run the snot out of it. Price on them is down to under 350, and I am considering trying one out.

 

[chicharrones]

I'd love to get a Burris 536 and run the snot out of it. Price on them is down to under 350, and I am considering trying one out.

If you do, be sure to pop in and give us some feedback. Good or bad, I want to know.