Reducing Throat Depth

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USAFRetired

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Greetings All:

I have an older, custom built 220 Swift that has a very deep throat. Built by H.W. Creighton (out of the Nashville area back in the 70-80s)

98 Mauser action
Sako super heavy barrel (I think) 1:14 twist
Timney trigger

Trouble is the throat is so deep I can't get the .10-.20 free-bore I want on my loads, and the accuracy isn't what it should be.

Is it possible (desirable) to have a gunsmith remove the barrel, cut the shoulder back .20-.30, cut the additional thread and re-cut the chamber?

The barrel is heavy enough that I wouldn't think chamber wall thickness would be an issue.
 
There was just another thread with this same very discussion within the past week. www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=531119 Anyway, The easiest way, if you call it that would be to do exactly what you mentioned. Shorten the barrel a turn or two on the threads, recut the bearing surface that contacts the receiver and rechamber the barrel with a finish reamer.
 
Just be aware that if the barrel has a tapered contour, setting it back will open a gap at the stock and that if there are iron sights, it will be necessary to set the barrel back by full turns.

Jim
 
I've never owned a swift but I've read quite a bit about them and not just on the internet :)

I've read that the swift is a barrel burner and can really tear up the throat of the barrel within a relativley small round count, true or not I don't really know for sure.

But, if this gun was put together in the 70-80 time frame with possibly 30+ years trigger time is it possible the barrel is in effect shot out and if so would turning the barrel in accomplish what you want?

Can the throat and leade be inspected to see what condition they are in
 
I'd second that in maybe bore erosion has lengthened the throat to unacceptable limits.

rifling.jpg

Inspect the bore carefully from the chamber forward a couple of inches. Throat erosion will appear as a rough orange peel looking dark surface instead of shiny rifling.

If that proves to be the case, you would be better off just replacing the barrel with a new one and starting over.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

rc
 
Wow...

Cut and section my barrel to inspect for throat erosion? (just kidding)

But seriously, has anyone used cerrosafe (or something similar) to make a cast of the chamber and throat to get a 3D look at the situation?
 
I have, but as I said, you should be able to see "orange peel" erosion in the throat if it is bad enough to be causing problems.

rc
 
A chamber cast is a good idea. I posted this search the other day, it does not address
the 220 Swift, but you may find it of interest. Google search for " Infamous Throat Erosion Gauge". The first sign that often turns up on a worn throat (but not always), is the accuracy of boattail bullets goes away first, and flatbase bullets will still shoot well for a while.
It's the combiniation of two things 1) long throat and 2) throat diameter bigger than it should be. ( This turns up on new guns as well from time to time. You can verify that
with the "Bulletsmiths" at Sierra Bullet Co.. They have done chamber casts on many guns
and have the largest data-base of any of the bullet companys that I know of.
Good Luck
 
It would be wise to have a knowledgeable gunsmith check it out. Most often, the throat is the first casualty in a hot round, and setting back the threads and refreshing the chamber and throat is used in some benchrest rifles to gain back the accuracy in lower round count barrels.
You can also select a custom reamer with the leade of your choice, to match a particular bullet, if desired. Most often the standard reamer will suffice, and allow you to use different bullets without any real issues.




NCsmitty
 
Many gunsmiths now have bore scopes that allow the inside of any barrel to be inspected. That, not a chamber cast, is the best way to determine the amont of throat erosion and general barrel wear.

Just FWIW, for anyone unaware of or confused by the term "throat erosion", here is what it is and the reason.

When a rifle (handguns too, but we are talking rifle here) is fired, the powder starts to burn rapidly at high temperature, and pressure rises rapidly. One of the first things that pressure does is expand the case neck. This is important; if the chamber neck is too small or the brass too thick to allow that expansion, pressures go sky high.

So the case neck expands, but the bullet's own inertia keeps it from moving for just an instant. In that instant, hot gas and burning powder particles rush past the bullet and into the barrel at high speed. Now any gas passing through a small gap speeds up, just like a stream of water speeds up as you tighten down the nozzle of a garden hose.

Someone compared that stream of hot gas to turning a welding torch into the barrel throat, but it is actually worse than that, since the gas and burning particles don't just heat the barrel, they "scour" the barrel throat like a sand blaster. This is "throat erosion." Once the bullet begins to move, it closes off the gap between itself and the barrel, the gas is slowed by the bullet, and the scouring ends.

Now, as the throat erosion continues, it scours the throat farther and farther out, and the "leade" where the bullet is smaller than the bore, is pushed further and further out as well as eaten away. Eventually, a point is reached where the gases will cool enough that the scouring stops and the damage will go no further.

But what is left is a part of the bore which is larger than the bullet, and long enough (sometimes as much as 5 inches in machineguns) to allow the bullet to twist and skid. By the time good rifling is reached, the bullet is already damaged and accuracy is destroyed.

Is there a way to prevent throat erosion? No. Obviously, a light powder charge will cause less erosion, and powders* notorious for causing it can be avoided. Slow firing, allowing the barrel to cool between shots, will help reduce erosion and extend barrel life.

As implied above, things are at their worst in machine guns with very rapid firing. Machine gun barrels erode very rapidly unless cooled or some resistant material (Stellite) is used to line the barrel. But even then, erosion is only slowed, not stopped.

*Double based powders contain nitroglycerin, which causes more erosion but they have other desireable properties so they are still used. One of the worst powders for causing erosion was the old British Cordite, which had a high nitroglycerin content.

Jim
 
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