Or better suggestions if they exist. Are there any refinishers on this site? I am curious about getting into some bluing and parkerizing...not as a business, just as way to restore old stuff. Example: I have a lot of milsurp AR mags that are worn/scratched/dented and I would like to possibly parkerize them...same with some old M1 Carbine mags and other misc. parts. Is there a complete set of instructions...the shortest path to a successful finish anywhere that someone could point me to? Don't answer if you haven't actually done this as I would like to be able to bounce questions off someone who knows what they are doing after I learn/as I learn.
Refinishing/Parkerizing
- Thread starter blkbrd666
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gb6491
Member
I'm not sure that I would say I know what I'm doing , but I have parkerized.
I used these sites for info:
http://www.blindhogg.com/parkerizing.html
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu52.htm
I bought the solution from Midway USA. (under $7 less s/h for either the zinc or manganese phosphate solution). I now buy it straight from http://www.lauerweaponry.com/
Surface prep is an important thing. I abrasive blasted, washed, and wiped with acetone. I don't see any reason chemical stripping followed by cleaning/degreasing shouldn't work.
The instructions want you to heat (and maintain) the solution to a certain temperature. Parkerizing solutions work best in the 180-190 degrees F range. They work outside that range but may take longer (cooler) or shorten the working life of the solution (hotter). You are also supposed to put some coarse, degreased, steel wool into the solution and cook it for 30 minutes. The tank needs to be stainless steel or ceramic (porcelain works). The solution does contain phosphoric acid, so it would be best follow the product instructions and be careful.
There are fumes; so do it in a well ventilated area.
I don't like using their sealer (found it isn't needed) and had better results with motor oil.
My first effort (let me say; this isn't intended as instruction; it's just how I did it): I experimented by using a microwave oven to heat some of the solution mixed with water in a large, microwave safe glass.
I think it worked out pretty well.
The parkerizing seems to be holding up pretty well after about 6 months use. There is a little wear around the front of the slide and the ejection port, but that's about it.
I also did a 1911 following the directions more closely in a heated porcelain pot. I left the slide in longer than the rest of the pistol so it came out darker for a two tone effect. http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/DSCN4177.jpg
I still do small parts by just heating some of the solution and a few strands of steel wool (lesson learned from the first effort) in the microwave. The microwave method isn't very exact (as I do it) and kills the solution quite quickly. This grip safety was done using the microwave:
All this to say; it's not all that difficult to get decent results. Hopefully a pro will chime in and set you straight on any or all things I led you astray on.
Regards,
Greg
I used these sites for info:
http://www.blindhogg.com/parkerizing.html
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu52.htm
I bought the solution from Midway USA. (under $7 less s/h for either the zinc or manganese phosphate solution). I now buy it straight from http://www.lauerweaponry.com/
Surface prep is an important thing. I abrasive blasted, washed, and wiped with acetone. I don't see any reason chemical stripping followed by cleaning/degreasing shouldn't work.
The instructions want you to heat (and maintain) the solution to a certain temperature. Parkerizing solutions work best in the 180-190 degrees F range. They work outside that range but may take longer (cooler) or shorten the working life of the solution (hotter). You are also supposed to put some coarse, degreased, steel wool into the solution and cook it for 30 minutes. The tank needs to be stainless steel or ceramic (porcelain works). The solution does contain phosphoric acid, so it would be best follow the product instructions and be careful.
There are fumes; so do it in a well ventilated area.
I don't like using their sealer (found it isn't needed) and had better results with motor oil.
My first effort (let me say; this isn't intended as instruction; it's just how I did it): I experimented by using a microwave oven to heat some of the solution mixed with water in a large, microwave safe glass.
I think it worked out pretty well.
The parkerizing seems to be holding up pretty well after about 6 months use. There is a little wear around the front of the slide and the ejection port, but that's about it.
I also did a 1911 following the directions more closely in a heated porcelain pot. I left the slide in longer than the rest of the pistol so it came out darker for a two tone effect. http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/DSCN4177.jpg
I still do small parts by just heating some of the solution and a few strands of steel wool (lesson learned from the first effort) in the microwave. The microwave method isn't very exact (as I do it) and kills the solution quite quickly. This grip safety was done using the microwave:
All this to say; it's not all that difficult to get decent results. Hopefully a pro will chime in and set you straight on any or all things I led you astray on.
Regards,
Greg
For aluminum AR-15 magazines, buy Permaslik-G from www.NeelyIndustries.com
It is the dry film lubricant used to originally coat the magazine bodies
It is the dry film lubricant used to originally coat the magazine bodies
gb6491,
Your work looks great! That's exactly what I'm after. And the info on where to buy too. I had researched some years ago but don't remember much about it and I didn't want to make a bunch of mistakes leading up to something that looked good. I may set up the turkey fryer and get a cheap stainless pot to work with the chemicals. Thanks!
DnPRK,
I've got some of the aluminum mags but I also have some that look like they're made of shell case brass and then coated with something that looks like aluminum. Any idea what these are? The brassy color shows through in the rubbed/worn places.
Anyone,
What metal types will take a Parkerized or phosphate finish?...what all can it be applied to?
Thanks!
Your work looks great! That's exactly what I'm after. And the info on where to buy too. I had researched some years ago but don't remember much about it and I didn't want to make a bunch of mistakes leading up to something that looked good. I may set up the turkey fryer and get a cheap stainless pot to work with the chemicals. Thanks!
DnPRK,
I've got some of the aluminum mags but I also have some that look like they're made of shell case brass and then coated with something that looks like aluminum. Any idea what these are? The brassy color shows through in the rubbed/worn places.
Anyone,
What metal types will take a Parkerized or phosphate finish?...what all can it be applied to?
Thanks!
ralfus
Member
You can't parkerize aluminum (or stainless). The brassy finish on AR mags is anodizing under the dry film lube. For those AR mags you can either use the film lube spray listed above by another member or get a cheap airbrush and apply gunkote or duracoat.
For parkerizing steel parts I bought the brownells concentrate one gallon bottle. You dilute it with distilled water and it is reuseable. I heat it up in a 3 gallon stainless pot bought at the dollar store for about $10. Bead blast the parts, tie up with bailing/tie wire, rinse off with brakecleaner while wearing heavy rubber gloves (like dishwashing gloves, they hold up well) suspend the parts in boiling water prior to suspending them in the park solution. I have sticks across the top of the park pot the hang the parts from. Dip the parts up and down a couple of times and then leave the parts suspened in solution until the parts stop fizzing, it can be 3-10 minutes. A little extra time can darken the parts in some cases. Rinse the parts in hot running water while brushing them down with a toothbrush, neutralizing the solution and brushing off flock. Set down on papertowells and let dry, the parts should be hot enough to mostly dry themselves. Spray or dunk in oil, I use Rig #2 or WD40. let the solution cool and pour into a gas can (clearly marked).
For parkerizing steel parts I bought the brownells concentrate one gallon bottle. You dilute it with distilled water and it is reuseable. I heat it up in a 3 gallon stainless pot bought at the dollar store for about $10. Bead blast the parts, tie up with bailing/tie wire, rinse off with brakecleaner while wearing heavy rubber gloves (like dishwashing gloves, they hold up well) suspend the parts in boiling water prior to suspending them in the park solution. I have sticks across the top of the park pot the hang the parts from. Dip the parts up and down a couple of times and then leave the parts suspened in solution until the parts stop fizzing, it can be 3-10 minutes. A little extra time can darken the parts in some cases. Rinse the parts in hot running water while brushing them down with a toothbrush, neutralizing the solution and brushing off flock. Set down on papertowells and let dry, the parts should be hot enough to mostly dry themselves. Spray or dunk in oil, I use Rig #2 or WD40. let the solution cool and pour into a gas can (clearly marked).
Riss
Member
I have found that placing the item into the Brownells Maganese Parkerizing solution COLD and then bringing it SLOWLY up to temp gives a better chance of getting a nice dark black finish. If you start it too hot it may only flash coat a thin layer of black than rubs off with your fingers when rinsed after you take it out of the bath. Then it is time to start all over again.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
GI mil-spec M-16 mags are aluminum, hard anodized with some sort of brass colored undercoat, then finished with a teflon dry-film lube.
When it wears off, you go from frosty dark grey, to smooth dark gray, to gold, to silver, when you finally wear down to the base metal.
A coat of shake & bake teflon finish is the best way to refinish them.
rcmodel
The gold or brassy looking finish on worn AR type mags is the result of a chemical soak in a product called Alodine or one of it's variants. It's a cold chemical soak process that's used on bare clean Aluminum to harden the metal like Anodizing....only easier. There's no electrodes or multiple stages. Just soak it and swish it around, then rinse it with water. There's even some discussion among metalurgists that it forms a surface as hard as many types of true Anodizing. Keep yer powder dry, Mac
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' irons
http://www.shootiniron.com
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' irons
http://www.shootiniron.com
Yes, you can Parkerize the insides of slides, frames and all other internal parts. It wont change the clearances at all or enough to make any difference to close tolerance parts.
Now having siad that, I have to add:
Some finishes can not be used for internal close tolerance moving parts. This is due to to two reasons.
1...They're to thick and will hinder movement.
2...They will not burnish-to-fit and may actually gum up close toelrance moving parts.
Our Tuff-Gun finish uses Gunkote Molly resin over Parkerizing. It's thin enough to not affect tolerances adversely but best of all, it will burnish to a perfect fit. Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com
Now having siad that, I have to add:
Some finishes can not be used for internal close tolerance moving parts. This is due to to two reasons.
1...They're to thick and will hinder movement.
2...They will not burnish-to-fit and may actually gum up close toelrance moving parts.
Our Tuff-Gun finish uses Gunkote Molly resin over Parkerizing. It's thin enough to not affect tolerances adversely but best of all, it will burnish to a perfect fit. Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com
krs
Member
The earliest work on phosphating processes was developed by British inventors William Alexander Ross, British patent 3119, in 1869, and by Thomas Watts Coslett, British patent 8667, in 1906. Coslett, of Birmingham, England, subsequently filed a patent based on this same process in America in 1907, which was granted U.S. patent 870,937 in 1907. It essentially provided an iron phosphating process, using phosphoric acid.
An improved patent application for manganese phosphating based in large part on this early British iron phosphating process was filed in the US in 1912, and issued in 1913 to Frank Rupert Granville Richards as U.S. patent 1,069,903 .
Clark W. Parker acquired the rights to Coslett's and Richards' US patents, and experimented in the family kitchen with these and other rust-resisting formulations. The ultimate result was that Clark W. Parker, along with his son Wyman C. Parker, working together, set up the Parker Rust-Proof Phosphating Company of America in 1915.
Colquhoun of the Parker Rust-Proof Phosphating Company of America then filed another improved phosphating patent application in 1919. This patent was issued in 1919 as U.S. patent 1,311,319 , for an improved manganese phosphating (Parkerizing) technique.
Similarly, Baker and Dingman of the Parker Rust-Proof Company filed an improved manganese phosphating (Parkerizing) process patent in 1928 that reduced the processing time to 1/3 of the original time that had been required through heating the solution to a temperature in the precisely-controlled range of 500°F to 550°F. This patent was issued as U.S. patent 1,761,186 in 1930.
Riss
Member
I you search here for threads about Parkerizing there are lots of threads explaining the little tricks on how to do it.
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