Refinishing question: charcoal?

[Stiletto Null]

I'm planning a refinishing job for one of my Yugoslavian SKSes.

The wood is elm, AFAIK. Yugoslavians used elm for most of their rifle stocks, unless they used beech (eew...) or misc. "hardwood" (***?). It's pretty coarse (right side view of an SKS), with some rough patches and some relatively smooth patches. I think I can shiny up the smoother patches, and I want to "do something" with the rough bits.

I've already had success working on the stuff (I refinished an M48, picture 1, picture 2) using boiled linseed oil, 120~400~600 grit sandpaper, and some tung oil for the last coats.

I want to try adding in some crumbled artists' charcoal to the mix. My goal is to blacken some of the dark bits, and hopefully streak the rest of the wood. I'm not trying to uniformly blacken the wood, otherwise I would just paint the damn thing.

 

[dfaugh]

Having refinshed several stocks, as well as restoring several pieces of antique furniture, I think you are better off just using a darker stain (I use Min-Wax stains) to bring out the contrast. I don't think the charcoal will mix with, or adhere properly. I often use one called "Natural" that does just that, then I use many coats of Tung Oil (allow 24 hours between coats). The Tung Oil will darken everything slightly, once it dries. Min-Wax makes a variety of stains, and you should be able to find a suitable one.

 

[DMK]

Real Milk Paint has some Dark Pure Tung oil. I tried some on a K98 Mauser and I really liked how it came out. It didn't darken the stock really, it just darkened the features giving it a sort of weathered, used look. Which was what I was going for.

BTW, I believe the Yugo stocks are Beech.

 

[Stiletto Null]

dfaugh: I'm looking for streaking (as if I'd taken little bits of charcoal and just kind of blasted them at the wood...or as if I rubbed them on), not for some kind of carbon overcoat. I'm not looking for a stain or overall darkening; if I were, I'd just use stain or more coats of oil.

 

[dfaugh]

I (think) I understand what you are looking for...But I still stand by my original comments. Contrary to what many would think, most stains will vary the color based on the density of the wood they are applied to. Less dense areas will absorb more stain, giving a greater contrast (and darker color).

Now, if you're looking to make some areas really "black", as opposed to just a darker shade, with more contrast, I don't know what you might use. But, I really don't think you'll get the results you desire by mixing in the carbon, to the stain. You may get the carbon suspended in the stain, but it'll wipe right off, without being absorbed by the wood

 

[Stiletto Null]

Hence the experimentation.

I'm going for a very coarse suspension (as in pound it into small chunks, not into dust) in the first few layers of oil (especially the first), specifically so that some of it can stick to/into the wood before oils finish sealing it up. More will adhere to rougher parts of the stock, less will adhere to smoother parts of the stock, so I'd probably get more blackening ("sooting" is probably more appropriate) around rough areas and more streaking on smooth areas.

 

[dfaugh]

Lemme know how it works...It if does, it will be a great tecniuqe, for making some really plain wood into something exceptional.

 

[Stiletto Null]

I need to figure out where I can get some scrap wood for experimenting with first (if only to find out how many oil layers it takes before continuing to add charcoal chunks stops doing anything); I'm sure it won't do any harm if it doesn't pan out, but I'd like to have some kind of preview.

 

[Kymasabe]

If you're using Tung oil or boiled linseed oil, you can "stain" the oil using oil based paints from an art supply store. I tried using Tung oil only on my beat up Chinese T53 Mosin, ended up sanding it again, using Min-Wax Red Oak stain and then a quick application of Tung, oil, buffed off after 10-15 minutes and then hand-rubbed in a paste made of 1/3rd boiled linseed oil, 1/3rd turpentine, and 1/3rd beeswax. (heated over a flameless heat until the wax melts, stirred, then left to gel). Works great.

 

[Stiletto Null]

I'm aware of Finnish Mix. However...

I'm not trying to uniformly blacken the wood, otherwise I would just paint the damn thing.

 

[.45Guy]

You could always use a little dark ebony stain for the streaking.

 

[Stiletto Null]

^^^

Dark ebony, huh? Elaborate.

 

[.45Guy]

I have no idea where my uncle got his hands on it, but he used a bit of it along with walnut to redo my SVT-40 when I went to boot camp. It is DARK... But I think both Minwax and Olympic make it.

 

[asknight]

Stilleto, if you're looking for some scraps to practice on, go to Boyd's and click on Odds and Ends. I think the walnut riflestock would do for some experimenting, and you can always get a $5 lamp kit at Wal-Mart to turn it into something functional when you're done.

 

[Shotgun12]

I once did an older military stock .... and couldn't get it to take enough brown stain to darken it very much. I used a light coat of the "Ebony" colored stain first .... then applied the brown over it. I ended up using a tinted 'satin' polyurethane finish .... but anything would work. Turned out damn nice .... gave it allot more "character".
It will tend to darken the 'dinged', and worn areas more .... if that's what you're shootin' for. You could experiment a bit, with sanding the ebony, before applying the brown stain.
I'm sure it'll work for any other "accents", also.

BTW, the ebony stain will act like any other stain .... meaning it doesn't "paint" the wood .... you'll still be able to see the wood grain (actually goes on, as more of a gray - not black).

 

[jeepmor]

Charcoal not a good idea

As a person who did considerable finish work as a cabinetmaker, don't mix stuff thinking it's going to give you the look you want unless you have a test piece. A lot of this type of work offers no turning back and can make for a bad day or ruined project in a hurry.

On the other hand. You can strip the stock of all finish, sand it up nice and use a stain evener (not sure of the exact product name, sorry) This stuff is like a sealer of sorts, but after using it, your stain will go on much more evenly and eliminate the blotchiness it has now. It's great for pine woods that have a lot of blue in them like sugarpine.

jeepmor

 

[mrmeval]

A blackener which may work depending on the wood is to allow nails to rust in vinegar and then apply that to the wood.
It works with woods high in tannin so it may not work on that.

http://www.sydneywoodturners.com.au/site/articles/techniques/blackening.html

The process is called "ebonising" and it works very well with oak. Reacts to tannic acid. Just put a handful of nails in a jar and cover them with white vinegar. Let stand for a few weeks. Magic, just brush on desired area or soak piece in solution. When dark enough, coat with ammonia to neutralise reaction.

 

[student]

EBONY oil based stain, let it sit until dry, wipe off, BLO later.....nice

 

[dfariswheel]

In order to "streak" wood with a darker color, you could use the same general technique as used to apply "Faux" grain to wood.

Buy some Tandy Leather Company "Pro Dye" water-based leather dye in dark brown or black.
http://www.tandyleather.com/products.asp?DEPT=173&Page=3

You can also use a well-thinned oil-based leather dye like Fiebing's:
http://www.tandyleather.com/products.asp?DEPT=173&Page=1

Cut the dye with alcohol until you have a thin tint.
Apply the dye with an artist's brush in the streaked or "grain" pattern you want and allow to dry.

You have to cut the dye with a lot of alcohol or thinner otherwise the dye will be TOO dark.
After the dye dries, if it isn't dark enough you can apply more.
If it's too dark however, it's very difficult to get it OUT.

Unlike most other stains, including hardware store water-based stains, leather dye soaks into the wood quickly, even into oily hardwoods.

I was once asked to "enhance" a pair of older, plain walnut Colt Grips for a fancy Python.
Note the nice grain, which doesn't show up in the photo nearly as well as it actuality was.


This is "grain" done with leather dye and a artist's brush, then with a finish applied over it.

 

[Stiletto Null]

^^^

Hey, that looks pretty nice. I might try that with another project.