refinishing stock-steam, dishwasher, sanding?

[offthepaper]

I want to refinish a walnut rifle stock. I've read where some folks think you should use a steam iron to remove dents and surface scratches in the wood. Others say you should stick it the dishwasher (!?). While still others swear by light sanding. Is there a consensious as to which works best, which is easiest, which gives the best results of the finished product. What would be the procedure for each? This will be my first stock refinishing, so I'm starting with an older 22 stock as to not have too great a loss if I should screw it up . All help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mac Attack]

Lots of people have strong opinions on the 'Dishwasher Method', 'Oven Bake Method' and 'Steam Clean Method' of cleaning and raising dents in stocks. I have tried the steam clean method and dishwasher method and by far the most convenient way is to use the dishwasher. The last stock I did was a cosmoline, grease encased walnut stock for a M1 Garand. The stock had numerous small to large dings in the wood and all came up after running it through the dishwasher. After my stock dried well, I sanded it, stained it and oiled it down with Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO). I have also tried to steam the dents out with a iron, steamer and via a kettle. The steam method works but it takes a very LOOOOOOOOOOONG time to do.

I haven't tried the oven bake method because it cost money to buy a can of Oven Bake Cleaner while my dishwasher only runs the cost of my electricity.

 

[AndyM]

I too tried the dishwasher method once. In my case it was with an SKS stock.

It was covered in cosmoline as you would expect. I first wiped off as much as I could with paint thinner and then I let that dry. The stock still had spots on it where the cosmo had soaked into the wood.

One run through the dishwasher removed almost all the spots. It also removed most if not all the the dents and dings.

Overall I was happy with the results but you have to factor in the following before you try this method.

1) Where does that cosmo go and what happens to it when it cools in your pipes? This is why I tried to get as much off with paint thinner as possible. I'm also not sure I want to keep putting cosmo down the drain so I'm not sure I'll use this method again.

2) Since it removes dents, it will also remove or at least lessen the crispness of cartouches, serial numbers and other desired markings. I would never recommend this method for stocks with significant markings.

3) I suppose there is some risk of warpage or swelling in the stock because of the heat and steam. Upon re-assembly, my stock fit tighter than before the wash cycle. It was not an issue for me, but I could see that some warpage could occurr.


Andy

 

[Ian Sean]

Dishwasher is a standard method for most stocks I've done. The steam iron and damp rag only for raising the really bad dents and gouges. I have been able to raise them up and make them less noticeable or disappear completely usually after a couple of treatments.

I don't understand why you say the steam method takes so long? Only an hour or two even on a deep dent. Steam it, let it dry, check dented area...repeat until it won't raise up any more.

With the military stocks I like Tung Oil myself...Formbys low gloss.

 

[Legionnaire]

What cycle, and what kind of detergent, do you use when "dishwashing" a stock? Do you pull it before the "dry" cycle and let it air dry? I can see that the dishwasher can remove traces of cosmoline and raise dings in the wood, but how is the original finish affected? Any of it removed?

Never tried this, and "inquiring minds want to know!"

 

[Ian Sean]

Legionnaire, I have used this mainly with military type stock with a "dry" or oil finish, I did strip and do a laminated SKS stock. Stripped it like a piece of furniture first with stripper.

If it's really oily I will use some soap (cascade cuts grease good!) and a standard cycle with heat. Comes out hot with the grain raised and ready to refinish.

 

[AndyM]

When I did my stock, I used no detergent and put in for a normal cycle. I had to remove the top rack to fit the stock in.

I pulled it out before the dry cycle was complete. I don't have any particluar reason why I did that.

Unfortunately I am answering these questions based on only a single experience.

How did it affect the original finish? I don't really know because I don't really know what the original finish was. I don't think the stock had a film finish like polyurathane or built up tung oil to begin with. Once I was done with the dishwasher, there wasn't much of a finish to speak of. It felt like bare wood.

The stock felt a little rough after the dishwasher because the grain was raised a bit. Running 180 or 240 grit sand paper over it knocked the raised grain down.

I finished the stock with a few coat of Waterlox which is a varish/tung oil blend.

Oh, here's another thing to think/worry about. Many military stocks (my SKS included) often have metals parts that cannot be removed from the wood part of the stock. For example, my gas tube plunger (if that's the right term) has a wooden piece of the stock on it. I put that in the dishwasher as well. This is one reason I did not use any detergent. As soon as it came out, I dried and oiled it. Not a lick of rust to speak of.

However, if the stock has metal pieces on it of historical significance, I would think twice of putting them in the dishwasher.

Andy

 

[.45&TKD]

Everyone has their own opinion, but I don't like to use extreme cleaning methods.

That means, no water, and no caustic cleaning solutions (like oven cleaner).
My first rule is like a doctor, "Do no Harm".
If you take all the oils out of the wood, you are damaging the wood.
These C&R stocks are 60-100 years old. I would like mine to last another 100years.

I usually just use mineral spirits. (Sometimes, lacquer thinner if it is real bad).
I've heard that denatured alcohol is good, too. Then several coats of Boiled Linseed Oil. Real Tung Oil (not Tung Oil Finish) would be acceptable to me as well (depending on the firearm), although I have not used tung oil, as of yet. That means no MinWax and no polyeutherane, as those materials are not age appropriate for these older firearms. (Raising dents through isolated steaming would also be OK, as you are not soaking the stock with water).

And no sanding, although, 0000 steel wool with BLO is something I plan to try on my next clean up/ finish.

I don't want my vintage military rifle stocks to look like modern commercial stocks. I want them to look good, but keep the character of their history.

But to each their own. Whatever makes you happy.

 

[AndyM]

.45&TKD is right. This is one of those subjects that has been debated a lot and results in a lot of different opinions.

One thing I havne't mentioned in my replies is whether or not I'd do the dishwasher method again.

I don't know yet. It worked and I'm happy with the results. It was quick, unmessy and simple. However, I used it on a generic, un-historically significant Yugo SKS stock. I don't think I did any harm to the stock with it's one time in the wash cycle. I would never even think about doing this on a rare/interesting/fragile/damaged stock.

But, I have one major issue with the dishwasher method that I haven't reconciled to my satisfaction. What happens with that cosmo cools in my pipes?
Now, since I've done this only once, I don't think my pipes are about to clog but I do wonder about my pipes and the down stream swerage systems.

So, what would I do next time? Heat is really what gets the cosmo to flow (melt) and get out of the wood. I plan to make an oven of sorts. I was thinking out of some black drainage pipe and let it stand in the sun. Or a lightbulb heated oven like this: http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/lowheatmethod2/index.asp

I think this is a fantastic article. It's really well written and clearly illustrated with pictures and drawings. (As are most articles on that site. Great site.)

I want to try this if for no other reason than to compare it to the dishwasher method.

I also agree with .45&TKD that harsh chemical cleaners aren't necessary. Paint thinner disolves the cosmo just fine. I can't imagine the need for something like oven cleaner. Unless of course your stock is covered in baked on drippings from turkeys, roasts and pies.

Andy

 

[RexDart]

I'm trying various methods; as a subject using Enfield wood that had been chopped to 'sporter' profile by a previous owner.

First step: dishwasher with normal detergent. Worked dandy for removing the finish and most of the Cosmoline. However, the crusty, sludgy clumps of Cosmo down in the recesses of the handguard remained. The one cartouche remaining after the sporterization (Savage 'S' on the underside of the buttstock) was not harmed that I could tell.

Step two: oven cleaner. Used topically to attack the remaining deposits. Did the job well, removing almost all of the remaining Cosmoline.

HOWEVER, anywhere the OC dripped on to otherwise clean wood, it damaged the wood fiber. When I applied stain, the 'drips' absorbed more stain than the surrounding wood, making for a very sloppy-looking stock. Now I must sand down through the OC-damaged wood and re-stain.

In summary: diswasher method is pretty handy and seems to work well. Oven cleaner does nasty things to wood, and will be avoided in the future.

I plan to experiment with mineral spirits and heat (independently of each other, naturally ) in the future.

 

[.45&TKD]

I used the Mineral Spirits and BLO method on a cosmoline soaked Yugo SKS 59/66 and it came out great. I used a hand hair dyrer for heat.

 

[30Cal]

It depends on what you have and what you want it to look like. The average military stock (with an oil finish) can be a very dirty, greasy affair. Whatever method you choose, if you do not apply it uniformly, you will probably end up with a blotchy looking stock.

For a commercial stock with the usual varnished finish, I would use a furniture stripper, then lightly sand to remove any scratches or shallow dents that remain. Try to sand as uniformly as possible.

Now steam out whatever dents you choose. Dents are tough to spot once it's been stripped, so take some photos or note otherwise where they are. You won't be able to steam out gouges or where the grain has been cut. Deeper dents will leave a bruise behind unless you sand pretty aggressively.

Wipe the stock down with mineral spirits if you want to get an idea of what the stock will look like with a finish on it. Once you start applying oil or varnish, any irregularities are going to stand out much more than what you see on the bare wood.

If you sand aggressively, you might sand into the stain or natural patina, and if you don't do the entire stock, it'll look blotchy.

At this point, I would wipe the stock with water, let it dry and lightly sand with #220 to remove the whiskers. Repeat, working down to a #0000 synthetic pad until no whiskers come up. Let it dry a day or two, then stain and finish.

Make sure you let the stock dry/cure thoroughly between steps.

The dishwasher will swell the stock to a certain degree and may affect the fit. I would let it dry several days if you go this route.

Ty

 

[Legionnaire]

Good info, guys; thanks. I refinished an SKS stock a couple of years ago, but simply used mineral spirits to remove the original finish, then steamed out the dents and refinished with tung oil. Came out nice, but I had a pretty clean specimen to begin with. Hadn't heard of the dishwasher method before.

 

[offthepaper]

Thanks to all. Well, since I have a 25 year old septic system (and no money to replace it) I have to stop and consider as another poster states "what happens when the cosmo cools in my pipes?", I'm not sure if I want to go the DW method. Also sounds as if the oven cleaner may do more harm than good. I guess that leaves me with the mineral spirits. In the past I used kerosene to clean a greasy milsurp stock. Worked OK getting the cosmo off, but the basement smelled for over a month! Does the mineral spirits have a similar odor? One last question, if a very light sanding is required, what grade, in decending order, abrasive should I use?

 

[sw9f]

I would think if you use some type of dishwasher soap, it should take care of the cosmoline. That's the purpose of the soap, to break up the grease and keep it from clogging the drain. Again, this is just my assumption.

 

[.45Guy]

offthepaper, it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If there is a cartoucuhe on the stock that you're trying to preserve I'd advise against dishwashers or solvents. Anything that raises the grain is going to require sanding hence destruction of the cartouche. However, if you just want to have a nice looking piece of wood with minimum effort, then by all means throw it in the dishwasher. Spot steaming with a damp washcloth and iron works well for ding removal, though remember, if the grain has been severed it may never raise all the way. Of course I like to leave a few dings, it adds "character."
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=218642