ken grant
Member
Waiting for the next installment reminds me of the serials at the movies when I was a kid.
Telling my age now!
Telling my age now!
Reliablity by Tuner
- Thread starter ken grant
- Start date
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Serials
Ken said:
Telling my age now!
I remember those! Life was simpler then...People carried pistols because they might get a chance to bust a tin can, and not because of all the meanness in the streets. And all the local cops KNEW you carried one, and didn't worry about it much unless you were drunk and disorderly. Yep...Life was good.
Glad ya like all the tunin' stuff. Didn't I tell ya it wasn't rocket science?
Cheers!
Tuner
Ken said:
Telling my age now!
I remember those! Life was simpler then...People carried pistols because they might get a chance to bust a tin can, and not because of all the meanness in the streets. And all the local cops KNEW you carried one, and didn't worry about it much unless you were drunk and disorderly. Yep...Life was good.
Glad ya like all the tunin' stuff. Didn't I tell ya it wasn't rocket science?
Cheers!
Tuner
ken grant
Member
My grandpaw carried a Colt Bisley .45 in his overalls everywhere he went.
Sometimes he drove to town in his car and then forgot he drove and walk home,but he never forgot his Colt
Sometimes he drove to town in his car and then forgot he drove and walk home,but he never forgot his Colt
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Grandpa
Ken said:
My grandpaw carried a Colt Bisley .45 in his overalls everywhere he went.
I've got a standin' rule whenever i have any dealings with old gentlemen.
Be nice. Be respectful. Most of'em do carry a gun, and you'll never know it
until you hear it go bang.
See...the older a man gets, the closer he gets to a line of departure when
dealin' with young whippersnappers. It goes somethin' like this:
"Well...I've lived longer'n the Good Book says I'm s'posed to. Had a good
life...Saw a lotta things. Had a good wife and raised me a passel of kids.
I've seen and done all that needs seein' or doin'. So, now I've got this young lion in my face talkin' about bustin me upside the head 'cause I
wasn't movin' fast enough to suit him. Now, time goes real fast for me, and
like I said...I ain't got a lotta time left to live...and they gotta feed me 3 squares a day in prison and gimme a bed to sleep in. Don't hafta cook or
nothin' and I've got free doctors and dentists about any time...and since
I don't have much time...and what time I do have is gonna go by real fast...
and since I don't feel much like goin' anywhere anyhow...hell, why NOT shoot the little S.O.B.?"
This entire thought process takes about 2 seconds.
Cheers!
Tuner
Ken said:
My grandpaw carried a Colt Bisley .45 in his overalls everywhere he went.
I've got a standin' rule whenever i have any dealings with old gentlemen.
Be nice. Be respectful. Most of'em do carry a gun, and you'll never know it
until you hear it go bang.
See...the older a man gets, the closer he gets to a line of departure when
dealin' with young whippersnappers. It goes somethin' like this:
"Well...I've lived longer'n the Good Book says I'm s'posed to. Had a good
life...Saw a lotta things. Had a good wife and raised me a passel of kids.
I've seen and done all that needs seein' or doin'. So, now I've got this young lion in my face talkin' about bustin me upside the head 'cause I
wasn't movin' fast enough to suit him. Now, time goes real fast for me, and
like I said...I ain't got a lotta time left to live...and they gotta feed me 3 squares a day in prison and gimme a bed to sleep in. Don't hafta cook or
nothin' and I've got free doctors and dentists about any time...and since
I don't have much time...and what time I do have is gonna go by real fast...
and since I don't feel much like goin' anywhere anyhow...hell, why NOT shoot the little S.O.B.?"
This entire thought process takes about 2 seconds.
Cheers!
Tuner
ken grant
Member
And now I am the old guy 
65
65Draper Knives
Member
Tuner, I've been lurking here for several months now. I've been following your posts. I would like to thank you for sharing your knowledge of the 1911. Your posts are well written and easy to follow, I enjoy your "good ole boy" attitude
Excellent information!
I've taken my pistol apart and applied some "Super Tuner" tricks with excellent results. Mostly cleaning up tooling marks, knocking down sharp edges and a bit of polish made a lot of difference. Your JB goop is some neat stuff! I'm shooting a SA Mil-Spec WWII, I would find myself in a shower of hot brass. The brass had the mouth mashed into a 'D' shape. I've lowered the ejection port and tweaked the extractor...much better That brings up a question...the extractor is easy to cut with a file. I have to wonder what type of steel they are made out of, and have they been heat treated? If there is enough carbon content, why not harden and spring temper
Thanks!
Mike
Excellent information!I've taken my pistol apart and applied some "Super Tuner" tricks with excellent results. Mostly cleaning up tooling marks, knocking down sharp edges and a bit of polish made a lot of difference. Your JB goop is some neat stuff! I'm shooting a SA Mil-Spec WWII, I would find myself in a shower of hot brass. The brass had the mouth mashed into a 'D' shape. I've lowered the ejection port and tweaked the extractor...much better
That brings up a question...the extractor is easy to cut with a file. I have to wonder what type of steel they are made out of, and have they been heat treated? If there is enough carbon content, why not harden and spring temper Thanks!
Mike
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Mil-Spec Extractor
Howdy Mike,
Springfield has recently been plagued by some bad extractors. It's a vendor QC problem that Springfield probably wasn't aware of until they were in the field. The extractors were poorly heat-treated, and would either wear out quickly, or wouldn't hold tension for more than a few hundred rounds. A warranty claim would stand about an even chance of
getting another one just like it...
An extractor made of 1075 or 1095 steel and heat treated and drawn to spring temper would still be duck soup for a file, since it would be much softer at about 50 Rc...Files are typically in the low to mid 70s on the Rockwell C scale.
Modern barstock extractors are likely made of 4340 and hardened/ tempered to roughly the same level...at least the good ones are. They're still not quite as springy as the 1095 steel, but will do very well with a little modification.
Your mashed brass is caused by the extractor dropping it before it can hit the ejector, and it's either insufficient tension or the extractor is clocking
in its bore...or both. More tension will probably cure both, but if the extractor is one of the bad ones, it'll come back soon.
Rx...get a Brown Hardcore or Wilson Bulletproof and fit it to the slide...
Tweak it and be done with it.
Welcome to THR!
Tuner
Howdy Mike,
Springfield has recently been plagued by some bad extractors. It's a vendor QC problem that Springfield probably wasn't aware of until they were in the field. The extractors were poorly heat-treated, and would either wear out quickly, or wouldn't hold tension for more than a few hundred rounds. A warranty claim would stand about an even chance of
getting another one just like it...
An extractor made of 1075 or 1095 steel and heat treated and drawn to spring temper would still be duck soup for a file, since it would be much softer at about 50 Rc...Files are typically in the low to mid 70s on the Rockwell C scale.
Modern barstock extractors are likely made of 4340 and hardened/ tempered to roughly the same level...at least the good ones are. They're still not quite as springy as the 1095 steel, but will do very well with a little modification.
Your mashed brass is caused by the extractor dropping it before it can hit the ejector, and it's either insufficient tension or the extractor is clocking
in its bore...or both. More tension will probably cure both, but if the extractor is one of the bad ones, it'll come back soon.
Rx...get a Brown Hardcore or Wilson Bulletproof and fit it to the slide...
Tweak it and be done with it.
Welcome to THR!
Tuner
Draper Knives
Member
Tuner,
Thanks!
The extractor is soft, it cut real easy with the file, must have came out of a bad batch. I'll get a new extractor on the way, along with a new barrel bushing. Any tips on who makes a good bushing, how to correctly fit it?
Thanks!
Mike
Thanks!
The extractor is soft, it cut real easy with the file, must have came out of a bad batch. I'll get a new extractor on the way, along with a new barrel bushing. Any tips on who makes a good bushing, how to correctly fit it?
Thanks!
Mike
romulus
Member
Tuner, question for you...are Wilson and Brown extractors made of the 1075/1095 steel you speak of? I read about Cylinder and Slide's extractor being a "true spring steel" but if you so much as scratch it they'll void the warranty. Is the C&S stractor 1075? What about Caspian?
Sorry I realize that was three questions...
Sorry I realize that was three questions...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
3 in 1+ Bushing
Howdy romulus and Draper,
Four questions is good...Saves bandwidth.
As far as I know, Brown, Wilson, and Caspian extractors are 4340,
and I'm not sure on the stainless extractors. 4340 is pretty good
if the heat treatment/tempering is good, but still not quite up to 1090.
If the steel is improperly tempered and drawn, it won't make much difference either way.
As for C&S not honoring the warranty if their extractor has been altered,
I can see it if it's evident that a butcher has been at it, but minor fitting
and creating clearances where they need to be is something that is sometimes necessary...and they're well aware of that. F'rinstance, the stop pad behind the hook is on the high side of tolerance, and the front of the channel is on the low side. When that happens...and it often does...
the stop pad has to be slightly reduced to get the required tension.
If the hook can't get to the rim, the amount of bend in the extractor won't
do a thing except make it harder to get in the channel. I guess that means
you're either stuck with a part that you can't use in THAT gun, (since they
don't mention anything about a refund if the extractor won't work...only
replacement if it breaks)...or you fit the extractor and void the warranty. It smacks of leaving a loophole open to get out of honoring their guarantee. Red flags go up.
It brings to mind Wilson Combat's not guaranteeing reliability unless a certain brand or brands of ammunition is fired in their guns. If the gun is right, it should run with any good quality ammo that is within spec dimensionally. If the extractor is good, it should tolerate minor fitting without compromising its structural integrity. I mean, suppose you go with a press-fit on the firing pin stop and it mars the bluing in the slot... Technically, they can use that to void the warranty, even though the break occurs at the hook.
Hope this answers your questions. Luck to ya!
----------------------
Draper, to fit a "hard fit" bushing correctly, you really need a lathe and a
mandrel. MGW makes a very good "Drop-in" bushing that is cut to the
high slide of tolerance on the slide fit, and on the low side on the barrel...
assuming middle of the road dimensions on both. On most guns that I've used them in, the fit is much closer than the factory bushings...a few even require some clearance adjustment to let the barrel tilt down when it
unlocks. This varies from gun to gun, but the dimensions are closely held
from bushing to bushing.
Your best bet is to give George Smith a call at Evolution Gun Works and give him your slide and barrel dimensions. He can cut a bushing that will be as close to a gunsmith fit as can be done without actually having the gun. You may have to do the final lapping in the slide to loosen it up a little for easier removal, but it will be very close. Minor adjustment for barrel spring and linkdown clearance may also be required, but it won't be much. Those guys are very good at holding close tolerances. You could buy the bushing and pay the fee for the machine work about as cheaply...and probably moreso, than you could pay a pistolsmith to do the work, and you'd need a VERY steady hand or a sandbag rest to see the difference in accuracy.
If you go this route, consider their Angle-Bored bushing at a slightly higher
cost, and you can pretty much do the final lap to the slide and go.
Luck to ya!
Tuner
Howdy romulus and Draper,
Four questions is good...Saves bandwidth.
As far as I know, Brown, Wilson, and Caspian extractors are 4340,
and I'm not sure on the stainless extractors. 4340 is pretty good
if the heat treatment/tempering is good, but still not quite up to 1090.
If the steel is improperly tempered and drawn, it won't make much difference either way.
As for C&S not honoring the warranty if their extractor has been altered,
I can see it if it's evident that a butcher has been at it, but minor fitting
and creating clearances where they need to be is something that is sometimes necessary...and they're well aware of that. F'rinstance, the stop pad behind the hook is on the high side of tolerance, and the front of the channel is on the low side. When that happens...and it often does...
the stop pad has to be slightly reduced to get the required tension.
If the hook can't get to the rim, the amount of bend in the extractor won't
do a thing except make it harder to get in the channel. I guess that means
you're either stuck with a part that you can't use in THAT gun, (since they
don't mention anything about a refund if the extractor won't work...only
replacement if it breaks)...or you fit the extractor and void the warranty. It smacks of leaving a loophole open to get out of honoring their guarantee. Red flags go up.
It brings to mind Wilson Combat's not guaranteeing reliability unless a certain brand or brands of ammunition is fired in their guns. If the gun is right, it should run with any good quality ammo that is within spec dimensionally. If the extractor is good, it should tolerate minor fitting without compromising its structural integrity. I mean, suppose you go with a press-fit on the firing pin stop and it mars the bluing in the slot... Technically, they can use that to void the warranty, even though the break occurs at the hook.
Hope this answers your questions. Luck to ya!
----------------------
Draper, to fit a "hard fit" bushing correctly, you really need a lathe and a
mandrel. MGW makes a very good "Drop-in" bushing that is cut to the
high slide of tolerance on the slide fit, and on the low side on the barrel...
assuming middle of the road dimensions on both. On most guns that I've used them in, the fit is much closer than the factory bushings...a few even require some clearance adjustment to let the barrel tilt down when it
unlocks. This varies from gun to gun, but the dimensions are closely held
from bushing to bushing.
Your best bet is to give George Smith a call at Evolution Gun Works and give him your slide and barrel dimensions. He can cut a bushing that will be as close to a gunsmith fit as can be done without actually having the gun. You may have to do the final lapping in the slide to loosen it up a little for easier removal, but it will be very close. Minor adjustment for barrel spring and linkdown clearance may also be required, but it won't be much. Those guys are very good at holding close tolerances. You could buy the bushing and pay the fee for the machine work about as cheaply...and probably moreso, than you could pay a pistolsmith to do the work, and you'd need a VERY steady hand or a sandbag rest to see the difference in accuracy.
If you go this route, consider their Angle-Bored bushing at a slightly higher
cost, and you can pretty much do the final lap to the slide and go.
Luck to ya!
Tuner
Draper Knives
Member
1911 Tuner,
Thanks! I was looking at the MGW bushing in Brownell's. It looks like it will fit a lot closer than the original. The factory bushing has .005 clearance between barrel and bushing and .003 between bushing and slide...a bit sloppy. I've got a lathe and if needed I'll build or buy a mandrel.
Thanks for your help!!
Mike
Thanks! I was looking at the MGW bushing in Brownell's. It looks like it will fit a lot closer than the original. The factory bushing has .005 clearance between barrel and bushing and .003 between bushing and slide...a bit sloppy. I've got a lathe and if needed I'll build or buy a mandrel.
Thanks for your help!!
Mike
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