Reload Help for 9mm Rem Golden Saber

[MikeOBWan]

So I have a ton of 124gr. Remington Golden Saber Brass Jacketed Hollow Points.

I loaded up a bunch of them, and went out to shoot it out of a Barretta 92FS. Anyhoo, every single one of my rounds (shot about 20) either stove piped or didn't eject at all, not one fired properly. Any help with my load data would be greatly appreciated.

I loaded
124gr. Rem Golden Saber BJHP
5.8gr. Blue Dot
Winchester Small Pistol Primer
Overall Cartridge Length is 1.118-1.120

Thanks
Mike

 

[rcmodel]

Do you have anything even close to a reloading manual??

Blue Dot is nearly the worst choice you could make in 9mm powders unless you want bleeding foreskin MAX load pressure & velocity.
And you clearly don't.

Your 5.8 load is well below the low velocity Starting load with a 124 grain JHP bullet in any manual you take the time to look at.

So you need to look at some reloading manuals.
Maybe even buy one or two for your own personal use!

Sorry, I'm going to bed before I insult someone else tonight and get banned from THR.

rc

 

[MikeOBWan]

Holy crap..

I actually have two manuals, Speer and Hornady.

As you can Clearly see I am at the higher end of the suggested load..

Any other helpful info would be greatly appreciated..

 

[rcmodel]

The 2009 Alliant manual says 124 Blue Dot max is 7.9.

Reduced 10% for the Starting load = 7.1.

My #13 Speer manual says 7.1 Start - 7.9 MAX.
Yours probably does too.

Your Hornady manual groups all 124 bullets into one group, including soft swaged lead bullets that can't take any pressure or velocity.

Bump it up with the hard brass jacketed Golden Sabers until the Beretta cycles them.

Or change powders more suited to them.

rc

 

[MikeOBWan]

Thank you.. That is helpful. Guess I have some bullets to pull..

The confusion is that I could not find any data on the Golden Sabers. So I figured I would use the XTP data from the hornady book.

I also have Power Pistol if that would be a better match for this bullet.

Thanks
Mike

 

[1SOW]

Anyhoo, every single one of my rounds (shot about 20) either stove piped or didn't eject at all, not one fired properly

.
Mike,
Just some questions to give us more to go on.
When you say "stove-piped and or didn't eject at all", do you mean there was an extraction/ejection problem? Did the slide cycle normally and cock the hammer?
"not one fired properly" Did the bullet hit paper/the target?

Your oal "might be" a little long, I'm not familiar with reloading for a Beretta. Did you do a "push test" with that bullet? Were there any "feeding" problems? Did the cartridge easily seat on the case mouth and still drop in and out of the Beretta chamber?
What was the measurement for your taper crimp? Was it .379" or less within 1/16" of the case mouth?

In other words give us the problem and load "details".

W.A.Guesses:
If the oal is too long it could be jamming the bullet into the cone or rifling.
If the case-mouth bell wasn't fully closed by the taper crimp it could cause jambing in the chamber before it fully seats. and might not extract at normal speed.
Your load data is for a "much" shorter oal if I read your data correctly.

 

[RedHeadHunter]

Sierra 50th list 125 gr. Blue Dot 6.1 Min and 7.0 max.

Lee Second Edition list doesn't list Blue Dot for it's 124 grain loads, but
does list it for the 125 grain loads. 8.2 min 8.2 max.

I have to go with RC. I think trying another powder would get you much
better results.

 

[rcmodel]

I also have Power Pistol if that would be a better match for this bullet.

Much better match for 9mm, if not for just that bullet.

The Golden Saber is a strange beast to start with.
1. Hard brass jacket instead of copper alloy gliding metal like most all other bullets.

2. The full dia bearing surface drops off to a bore riding diameter ogive before any other bullet I know of.
Which is Very unusual for any jacketed pistol bullet design.

It can present all kinds of OAL, case neck tension, and bullet set-back problems for the new, or experianced reloader.

I've had my share of problems with them myself years ago.

rc

 

[rg1]

Power Pistol would be a better choice than Blue Dot. I'd work up to about 6.2 with PP powder. The brass jacketed bullet with a driving band creates less pressure than comparable weight copper jacketed bullets. Often it takes about two tenths more powder with the GS compared to copper jacketed to equal the same velocity. I load 124 Golden Sabers at 5.2 grains of Unique with CCI 500 primers and have loaded up to 5.4 grains of Unique. 5.2 grains is a nice load.
Factory 124 GS's are seated to an overall length of 1.120-1.125". Very lightly taper crimp just to remove all belling.

 

[RedHeadHunter]

The Remington Golden Sabre has a driving band at the base of the bullet. That is the only part of the bullet that has to cut into the rifling. The rest of the bullet rides on the lands which reduces pressure and increases velocity.

I don't have any specific Golden Sabre data for the 9mm, but my Accurate #2 manual list a 45 ACP max load for a 185 grain Golden Sabre @ 12.0 grains for 1228 fps. That is well over 100 fps faster than the fastest load it list for the (XTP. 10.2 gr @ 1102 fps).

This may be the reason you are not getting enough energy to cycle your action completely.

It is a great bullet when you figure it out, but not the easiest for the beginner.

 

[MikeOBWan]

1SOW: The bullets fit in the mag fine, and chambered without any problem. They fired and the bullet hit the target, but then upon extraction they either stove piped or didn't eject at all. I had to manually eject them. None of them stuck, if that is what your asking. The Taper Crimp is just a touch..

K well it looks like I will pull all these I have loaded and reload using Power Pistol instead. And maybe try a little longer OAL.

Thanks for all the help. I'll let ya all know how it turns out..

Thanks
Mike

 

[Josh45]

Was going to use Blue Dot tonight in some loads with 124 Gr HP but decided not to because a lot have said it is one of the worst choices in 9mm loading. Power Pistol is a much better choice in it because IIRC, Someone once said it was made for the 9mm.

Works good in .40 S&W as well! Also, Check your OAL again. Could be an issue as well.

 

[gamestalker]

10-4 on the Hornady data, it is significantly lower end data from the others published sources. But even so, Blue Dot is terrible for the 9mm. I'm surprised it is still being published for 9mm, or even .40 cal for that matter.

Maybe give HS6 or Longshot a try? I load a multitude of cartridges with those two, and have never had any issues with either.

 

[dirtengineer]

This is about the only data I have ever found for the Golden Saber.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/9mm.htm

 

[JLDickmon]

Blue Dot is better suited to .45 ACP loads than 9mm.
Better still to .357 and .44 Mag loads..

Someone called it "flaming dirt" a couple of weeks ago.. I would tend to agree..
but it gives good velocity results..

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I load 124gr GS over PP with great results - except for a real flash at dusk,

 

[Walkalong]

I have loaded the 124 Gr GS at 1.120 to 1.125 OAL (Factory OAL) with excellent results.

Powders like N340, AA #5, HS-6, True Blue, WSF, Power Pistol, Unique, Universal, etc are better suited to the novice 9MM reloader.

A healthy dose of Blue Dot is good for huge fireballs, that's for sure. Power Pistol is pretty flashy as well.

As posted, the GS is a bore riding design giving less friction and takes a bit less powder to get the same velocities as some similar 124 Gr HPs. That also means we can get a bit more velocity from them before max pressure as well.

Pick a nice middle of the road (according to load books) powder charge of any of the listed powders and you will be fine to start.

 

[MikeOBWan]

Yeah I originally bought the Blue Dot for My .44 Mag, and the Power Pistol I was using for my .45 ACP. I figured since I would be loading 1000's of .45 and only 100's of .44 I would use the Blue Dot for the 9mm. But alas that looks to be the wrong direction. I loaded up some Power Pistol with 5.9 grains with OAL 1.120-1.125 last night and will take them out today and test them.

Thanks.
Mike

 

[Steve C]

Blue Dot works fine in the 9mm though you can get more velocity with Unique or Power Pistol. I'd suggest you run your loads up to 7.2 to 7.9 grains and your ejection problems should disappear. I've loaded 115gr JHP's with 8.0 grs of BD that produced an average velocity of 1,224 fps from my Beretta 92.

The earlier 2008 Alliant data that used more generic bullets lists a maximum of 8.2 grs of BD with a 125gr FMJ with OAL greater than 1.15" producing a pressure of 29,900 psi (SAAMI max standard pressure is 35,000 psi) an a velocity of 1,170 fps from a 4" barrel. Current Alliant 9mm Blue Dot loads usiing a Speer 124gr GD max out at 7.9 grs.

As a slow powder at the charge levels that needs to be used you will find that your loads will be compressed or close to it as the powder will fill the case quite full. No problem wih bullet setback. Factory Golden Saber 124gr +P that I have has an OAL of 1.125" FYI. When I've loade GS bullets in both the 9mm and the .45 ACP I use the Lee FC die and crimp relatively moderately duplicating the look of the factory rounds.

 

[MikeOBWan]

Well loaded up 20 rounds with Blue Dot at 7.5gr and OAL at 1.125 they worked great. No problems at all..

I also loaded up 20 rounds using Power Pistol at 5.9gr. and OAL at 1.125 and they also worked great, not quite as much kick as the Blue Dot Load..

I did not chrono these, but all fed perfectly and shot very accurately. I probably will load the rest of my 9mm using Power Pistol.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions
Mike