Reloading 357 Sig Using 2 sizing dies w/o case lube

[RGMJ]

Hi THR Members,

I was reading a MidwayUSA review on the Lee 357 Sig Dies and several guys there mention reloading the Sig without case lube using a 40S&W carbide sizing die first, followed by the 357 Steel sizer die.

Have you guys any experience with this method? Does it work at all? Will the 357 sig sizing die get damaged by sizing cases w/o lube?

I reload 357 sig for my Glock 31 and find case lube to be a messy affair. I'd rather do an additional stroke on my turret press than use case lube.

Any ideas and advise would be highly appreciated...

 

[Waywatcher]

Dies don't need lube for protection, the brass needs lube to come back out of the die!

I don't think you're going to hurt anything, the worst case scenario is a stuck case.

 

[howlnmad]

It seems to me that they're using the 40 cal. carbide to size the body (with no lube) and the Sig steel die to do the neck and shoulder. I don't see a big problem since ith Sig is just a necked down 40. I do think I would still lube the inside of the neck though.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I size my 357 Sig brass in a carbide sizing die first, and then use a 357 Sig sizing die for the neck and shoulder. I run mine through a Magma Case Master Jr., which pushes the entire case through a die, sizing the whole case, including the rim. I do lubricate my cases, though, and just run them through the tumbler for about 20 minutes to remove the lube prior to priming and loading.

The 357 Sig case was engineered from the ground up, and isn't a necked down .40 S&W case. It has a thicker base and web area to withstand the higher pressure of the 357 Sig round. It's also a longer case. A necked down .40 case is too short, and while it will stand up to moderate loads, it's not designed to take the pressures of a maximum 357 Sig load.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[evan price]

You can resize with the carbide 40 die, but you still need a bit of lube inside the neck of the 357 Sig case and a 357 Sig die to neck size... Treat it like a rifle case and you're better off. There's such short area there to provide tension on the bullet that it needs all the help it can get to prevent setback.

 

[JimKirk]

I bought a lot of once fired 357 SIG from a police range, it has a very slight "Glock" bulge that the regular RCBS 357 SIG die nor a RCBS carbide die will remove. So I run them through a Redding 40 S&W G-Rx die after lubing them with a little spray lube in a Gallon zip lock bag. I then run them through a steel RCBS 357 SIG die, they have enough lube still on them so I don't relube. I then dump them in the tumbler for 15 minutes to clean the small amount of lube that is left off. I then finish priming, charging and seating the bullets.

Jimmy K

 

[RGMJ]

Reloading 357 Sig

Thank you guys for your thoughts...I guess I'll be sizing in 2 steps after all...good bye case lube!! )

 

[DickM]

I use the two-step sizing routine, without lube, and have had no problems.

 

[ranger335v]

"I guess I'll be sizing in 2 steps after all...good bye case lube!!"

It will "work". But, squeezing two dry metals under pressure will result in the softer metal galling (sticking) to the harder. It starts as microscopic bits that adhere as firmly as if welded and the bits grow in successive passes. Eventually you will see light scratches that will grow until they can actually weaken the thin necks. So, when you have galling and don't clean it out you will certainly damage your cases.

Use some lube.

 

[MrOldLude]

"I guess I'll be sizing in 2 steps after all...good bye case lube!!"

It will "work". But, squeezing two dry metals under pressure will result in the softer metal galling (sticking) to the harder. It starts as microscopic bits that adhere as firmly as if welded and the bits grow in successive passes. Eventually you will see light scratches that will grow until they can actually weaken the thin necks. So, when you have galling and don't clean it out you will certainly damage your cases.

Use some lube.

Over a long enough period of time, sure, the softer metal will wear out. But over the useful life of a necked case, abrasive effects are secondary.

 

[rcmodel]

ranger335v is exactly right.
Sizing in a steel die without lube is going to result in brass galling and sticking in the die.
Which is going to result in scratched cases.

Anyway, whats the big deal with not using a little lube??

Just a light spritz of one-shot or something in a bowl full of cases is all it takes.
Hand stir them around and give it time to dry and go for it.
It's not like you have to soak them in oil overnight or anything.

The reduced effort in sizing is more then enough payoff, not to mention the dry cases galling & case scratching once the brass flecks get welded inside the die.

I use a little lube on all handgun cases, even with carbide dies.

rc

 

[DickM]

But, squeezing two dry metals under pressure will result in the softer metal galling (sticking) to the harder. It starts as microscopic bits that adhere as firmly as if welded and the bits grow in successive passes.

Not saying that's not possible, but . . . I've resized many tens of thousands of rounds in carbide (nitride, etc.) dies with no lube and have only experienced galling/scratching once, when I resized some few hundred factory new unprimed .32 S&W Long brass in a Redding titanium carbide sizing die. I called Redding and the tech explained that new brass is so clean that they recommend using a bit of lube when sizing for the first time to avoid galling - after that, even after it comes out of the tumbler and is wiped off there's usually enough residual dirt (to use the technical term) on the brass so that galling doesn't occur. Sure enough, I buffed the galling out of the die and haven't had any trouble with those cases since, or any others ever (including the .357 SIG).

 

[68wj]

Spray lube has really made the lube complaints, well, silly. I used to load .357 sig, 10 cases at a time, with the RCBS lube pad. What a PITA! Now, dump everything in a bag or container, give a little spray, shake (or stir if that's your style), and size. I think it is a great cartridge and worth the little extra effort.

 

[Baron]

I run my 357 SIG cases through an RCBS .40 resizing carbide die and then through the Lee 357 SIG resizer. I have never used lube. I load all my 357 SIG with 13 grains of AA#9, so my brass gets quite a workout but I've yet to have a failure of any kind with either my P226 or M&Pc.

BUT: BE SURE TO REMOVE THE DECAPPING PIN FROM THE .40 DIE!!!! I can't explain it, and the parts should be interchangeable, but I busted three decapping pins before I figured it out. When the pin would work, it felt weird, like the pin was too big. I may recall that Speer's flash holes are smaller, and there is a whole lot of Spree 357 SIG brass out there. Anyway, just be safe and let the 357 SIG resizing die do the decapping.

 

[RB98SS]

BUT: BE SURE TO REMOVE THE DECAPPING PIN FROM THE .40 DIE!!!! I can't explain it, and the parts should be interchangeable, but I busted three decapping pins before I figured it out. When the pin would work, it felt weird, like the pin was too big. I may recall that Speer's flash holes are smaller, and there is a whole lot of Spree 357 SIG brass out there. Anyway, just be safe and let the 357 SIG resizing die do the decapping.

I too resize in two steps using my carbide 10mm die and then the Lee 357sig die. I used to lube the cases -- which probably is beneficial -- but have since quit doing so without any ill effects.

Interesting too, that I have broken a Lee decapping pin when I resized a bunch of fired cases. The Lees aren't easy to break either. I do recall that one headstamp did indeed have a smaller flashhole than the others, but I didn't think it was the Speer. I could be wrong though.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Speer brass has two different size flash holes in 357 Sig. When the round first became popular with law enforcement, they didn't have enough manufacturing capacity to fill the demand for this caliber, so they contracted with an outside source for brass. There is a small "s" on the headstamp of this brass. The contracted brass has the smaller flash hole.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[RB98SS]

Speer brass has two different size flash holes in 357 Sig. When the round first became popular with law enforcement, they didn't have enough manufacturing capacity to fill the demand for this caliber, so they contracted with an outside source for brass. There is a small "s" on the headstamp of this brass. The contracted brass has the smaller flash hole.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Thanks Fred. I don't know where you find all this info from.

 

[ReloaderFred]

RB98SS,

I attend the SHOT Show every year it's in Las Vegas. That gives me the opportunity to talk to the people actually making this stuff. I asked the Speer Reps about the different size flash holes a few years ago and that was their explanation.

I usually take a few very old items from those companies and that usually gets them to open up. Last year, I took some of the old Speer shotgun primers that were made to punch out the anvil and primer from the primer case. You then reseated the anvil in the primer case and then seated what looks like a large rifle primer, without an anvil, on top of the anvil you've replaced. They were so old that none of the guys in their booth had ever seen them, though they had heard of them. I gave them the package and remaining primers, and about two weeks later I received in the mail the new edition of the Speer Reloading Manual, autographed by everyone who contributed to the manual.

The year before, I had a lot of fun with a .38 AMU case with a Remington headstamp. Nobody, out of about 20 people in the Remington booth, had ever seen one and didn't have a clue what it was. They tried to get me to give it to them, but I declined, since it was the only one I had. The only person who knew what it was was Paul Nowack, the VP of marketing for Winchester Ammunition, who happened to be the guy who convinced Winchester to market the 9x23 Winchester, one of my favorite calibers.

It's a great show and you get to talk to all the people you read about. Most are just regular people, doing a job. There are some who are stuck on themselves, but not many. The firearms business is really a pretty friendly place.

I'm leaving for the SHOT Show again on January 16th, and won't be back home until January 22nd. The show is four days long, and it takes all four days to see everything.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[RB98SS]

I usually take a few very old items from those companies and that usually gets them to open up. Last year, I took some of the old Speer shotgun primers that were made to punch out the anvil and primer from the primer case. You then reseated the anvil in the primer case and then seated what looks like a large rifle primer, without an anvil, on top of the anvil you've replaced. They were so old that none of the guys in their booth had ever seen them, though they had heard of them. I gave them the package and remaining primers, and about two weeks later I received in the mail the new edition of the Speer Reloading Manual, autographed by everyone who contributed to the manual.

Fred,

I can't even envision what you just explained here. Haha. It sounds like a two piece primer. The show sounds like fun, maybe when I retire....I'm counting down.

 

[ReloaderFred]

What it involved was taking a shotgun primer apart, and putting it back together with new priming compound. It wasn't the most efficient, which is why it was abandoned so many years ago.

The SHOT Show is a trade show, open to only those "in the business". Many people think of it as a gunshow, but it isn't. You can't buy things there, but dealers can place orders with distributors, etc. It's used to showcase products and introduce new products. It's quite an experience.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[RGMJ]

Case Lube for 357 SIG

Thanks guys...I noted we have a lot of good tips and experienced reloaders in this site!! So it will be a small amount of luibe for my 357 Sig cases during resizing.

By the way, the MidwayUSA site has also similar posts in the 400 corbon and 30 luger dies. The reloaders mention sizing in 2 steps with 2 dies - one for the body another for the neck - all done without case lube.

I guess this is prevalent practice. I also called Lee and they mentioned that sizing unlubed case in the 357 SIG die will not harm the die. The lube is to prevent a stuck case not to prevent damage to the die.

THANKS TO ALL WHO POSTED A REPLY!!!