Reloading 38 Special

[blackd24]

I am reloading 38 special for a new revolver on the way. I can't find ammo online anywhere, so I am turning to reloading. I am relatively new to reloading - I've loaded about 2000 rounds of 9mm in the last year on my Lee Classic Turret press. I purchased the lee dies for 38 special/357 mag and put them on a turret plate.

I have Unique, Bullseye (bought specifically to load 38 special), HP-38, titegroup, BE-86. I've looked up the load data so I'm good to go on that, but I have a few questions with respect to loading 38 special.

1. Roll crimp/OAL - For 9mm, it's only a taper crimp, so I know for 38 special i will have to put a heavier crimp. I got 158 grain SWC ordered from Brazos precision - this is the OAL question. I've read that the OAL is set by the bullet, and the bullet typically has a crimping groove.

https://www.brazosprecision.com/38-158gr-SWCBevel-BaseGroove-656ct-00632bullet_p_14.html

The bullets are linked above - Where do i crimp? Is it right on the groove sticking out closest to the nose of the bullet? Or is it the "middle hump." Once I set the seating die and the crimp, I can measure the OAL and make sure its greater than the minimum OAL in the load data. I tried to do some research on this, but I couldn't find a picture of 'before and after' of a bullet before it goes in, and then where its crimped once its in the case.

2. Does anyone have experience with these bullets? It looks like 12 hardness. My plan is to stay middle of the road for a light plinking round. Will these work?

3. Any suggestions for differences to be mindful of going from 9mm to 38 special?

 

[ben293]

Good evening-

I've been using these bullets for a bit now- my experiences/thoughts for what they are worth:

Powder- I've used tested HP38, Unique and BE-86- Personally, I prefer these bullets between mid and full load with BE-86 out of my gun (Colt Trooper 357)

1- That is the groove to crimp in, pic below for how my rounds look.

2- I've been a fan of these particular bullets from Brazos- they've shot well, load well, and I have not had leading issues with these.

 

[blackd24]

Perfect, thank you! Now i have something to compare to my reloads. Exactly what I needed.

 

[blackd24]

With the bevel base, is it a pretty light case expansion before you seat this bullet?

 

[GoldieMI]

You have to flare enough to not shave the HiTek coating or the Lead off.
it will be more than 9mm flaring you are used to..Lead bullets need more flare in general

 

[cfullgraf]

If you chamfer the inside edge of the case mouth, it will reduce the chance of shaving the bullet. It is a one time thing.

When using a roll crimp, it is a good idea to trim the cases. It gives a more uniform crimp case to case. Also, once trimed, it is a one time thing with revolver cases.

I generally target my crimp to be at the center of the crimp groove.

If loading to target or a little it hotter levels, you can use a lighter crimp to just remove the belling of the case mouth. Trimming is not as important or you could use a taper crimp. I taper crimp my 38 Special target wadcutter loads.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You'll find that .38Spl brass varies a lot in case length...even within the same headstamp. To get an even roll crimp, you're going to want to trim your cases to a uniform length.

All your powders will work in .38Spl. I tend to stay away from Titegroup with coated bullets as it burns hot enough to melt the base of the bullet. I've loaded .38Spl with Bullseye, HP-38, and BE-86 for plinking. For Competition, I'm loading with Clays.

I do expand a bit more when loading coated/lead bullets as not enough expansion will shave lead...plated/jacketed bullets get away with less expansion because the case mouth slides along the plating/jacket. For the same reason, it is very important that you start the bullets as straight as possible into the case mouth

While I have used the Lee FCD for 9mm, I'd advise against using it with lead bullets as it can easily reduce neck tension

 

[derek45]

HP-38 is a good powder for 38 special, and that bullet design is a good one.

This is how I roll crimp, and I would seat it like the one on the right.

 

[9mmepiphany]

^^^
Yup, roll crimp into the middle of the crimp groove

 

[forrest r]

3.5gr of bullseye & a +/- 158gr bullet in the 38spl's has been a standard load for decades that has accurately sent countless millions of rounds down range. Myself I do test loads starting at 3.3gr then 3.4gr and finely 3.5gr.

The only time I ever trimmed cases was back in the 80's, we'd get piles of the WCC brass and match prep them for competition.

If you look at the bullet you ordered it has an extremely long/deep at the top end tapered crimp groove. Crimping at the top of that crimp groove is for heavy loads (hot 357's), if you use a light crimp and seat the bullet deep enough that you are trying to crimp at the top of that crimp groove. You'll end up with open air gaps at your crimp/not crimped heavy enough which is never a good thing. When you look at a picture of a crimp you want to see full contact of the crimp to the bullet. WC bullets seated long so that the crimp is actually in a grease groove. The grease grooves are deep and require a heavy crimp.


Don't be afraid to put a good solid crimp on your bullets, I'd as others have already stated aim for the middle of the crimp groove. I never worried about wearing out brass with heavy crimping of a bullet. Brass is cheap, darn I only got 15 reloads out of my brass instead of 20.

Flaring the brass is another place where people worry about over working their brass. Myself I'd rather wear out a $.05 piece of brass than ruin 15 $.06 bullets trying to get a couple extra reloads out of a piece of brass. When I expand my cases to accept any bullet (cast/coated/plated/jacketed) I want enough flare to have 50/1000th's+ of the bullets base sit in the case mouth. With cast bullets like what you ordered I like to have around 1/3rd of the bullets base sit in the case.

Not all die sets are created equal, most of them are designed for jacketed bullets. The expander ball that comes with them are designed to expand the case for the smaller in diameter shorter jacketed bullets. A picture of a lee factory expander next to a lyman m-die. The m-die is designed for plated/coated/cast bullets, the lee for jacketed. If you look closely at the lee expander you will see a "high" water mark the brass left on it (brass colored ring). That is all the deeper the lee expander goes into the case. The m-die goes all the way up to the step in the top of the expander button.


A cut-a-way of the lyman m-die & how it expands a case.


If you're going to reload a lot of the plated/cast/coated bullets might want to invest in some m-dies. Or places like neo bullet molds sells expanders cheap that use the lee universal expander body that do a fantastic job of correctly expanding your cases so that the bullets starts strait, seats strait and has no scraping of the lead/plating/coating.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/expanders/

Did I mention 3.3gr to 3.5gr of bullseye and a 158gr bullet makes a pretty good reload??? The top target is 3.3gr of bullseye pushing a home cast/coated 158gr bullet. 6-shot groups @ 50ft

 

[Walkalong]

Different bullet, but it shows the crimp groove and the crimp. The shape of the crimp groove helps determine the look of the roll crimp as the case mouth wants to follow it. Trimming does help get more uniform crimps, but many people don't trim .38 Spl. I do.


Aside from titegroup which I don't care for (Lots love it), you have some great powders for the job.
I Ioad coated lead over bare lead these days.

 

[murf]

make sure you check your case for the correct powder charge with a good flashlight before you seat your bullet, then check it again. the 38 special case is long and the very small powder charge you will be dropping is near impossible to see. a double charge, or no charge, is a bad thing here.

luck,

murf

 

[Crazy Horse]

Man,

All this 38 special talk makes me want to go shoot my 38's.

CH

 

[earplug]

The less you work the brass the longer the brass will last. Excessive belling and crimping will work harden the brass and it will split. 38 SPL brass is a bit thinner then 9MM brass and its getting harder to find.

 

[blackd24]

Agreed - I was able to purchase about 1300 once fired cases locally. I couldn't find anything online - starline was my first choice but they are backordered. It seems like anything I want or need for reloading is out of stock or "expect 10-12 weeks." Crazy times right now.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Agreed - I was able to purchase about 1300 once fired cases locally. I couldn't find anything online - starline was my first choice but they are backordered. It seems like anything I want or need for reloading is out of stock or "expect 10-12 weeks." Crazy times right now.

---
Huh??? Darn near a lifetime supply.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/888296023

 

[Herman B]

Roll crimp/OAL - For 9mm, it's only a taper crimp, so I know for 38 special i will have to put a heavier crimp.

Why? 38 Spc is a low-pressure round, much lower than 9mm. Not to say you should/shouldn't roll crimp but I need a sound reason before doing something, other than 'that's the way we've always done it.' I taper to ultra-light roll crimp all 38 Spc but the +P loads. Neck tension is more than ample but may not be using a hot/heavy/+P load in an airweight gun. Or an undersized bullet in thin brass. A roll crimp has its' place; in a tube-fed lever where magazine spring is applying pressure and concern with smooth entry at feed ramp.

I'm not as concerned about the third decimal in OAL as I am about seating to the crimp groove for grooved bullets. But for not-grooved bullets I seat to length.

I don't have vast experience contrasting ignition performance between 38 Spc roll vs. taper but am skeptical. Most 38 Spc use small quantities of powder. Not like igniting a large quantity (e.g. H110) in 357 M or 44 M.

BHN 12 is perfect for the plinkers - good choice. Seat in one station and crimp in another. A case gauge is helpful.You mentioned 'new revolver.' Presumably a modern revolver capable of handling +P loads should you load into that range. If an older revolver, verify +P compatibility. Stay safe!

 

[mdi]

For a newer reloader; K.I.S.S.; Bullseye is a great start. Use as much flare (plain old tapered flare is good) as needed to get straight, easily seated bullets now, and worry about case life later. A flare is too big when the case has difficulty entering the seating die., and it will be removed during crimping. Seat bullets to crimp groove (the groove nearest the bullet nose) and disregard book OAL. Test length by dropping a cartridge in the cylinder and it the bullet is not sticking out the front of the cylinder, it's a good length. Amount of crimp is hard to describe and is fairly subjective (and forget a Lee FCD for your revolver handloads). I like my revolver handloads to have the bullet seated to the top edge of the groove and roll the case mouth in, near the bottom, inside diameter of the groove. As long as the bullets don't walk during recoil, you're OK and can play with/experiment with different amounts of crimp as you gain experience. This has worked for me with all 7 of my revolver firing guns using heavy magnum loads (44 magnum max loads of WC820 under a 265 gr RNFP) down to low, light target loads (38 Special 148 HBWC with 2.8 gr Bullseye) since my first 38 Special I pounded out with a Lee Loader in '69...

Another hint; even though it's difficult to find components today, find a load in your reloading manual(s) before you buy components. Many fewer headaches, less time waiting for forum answers, and no mis-matched components...

Go slow. Double check everything. Most important, have fun...

 

[blackd24]

---
Huh??? Darn near a lifetime supply.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/888296023

I was talking about finding new brass online, but yes there is a lot of used once fired available. I prefer not to deal with shipping.. USPS has a tendency to lose packages, especially around Christmas.

 

[blackd24]

This a model 19 classic chambered in 357 magnum so it will easily be able to handle 38 special loads. This is also the first revolver I've ever owned.

 

[rfwobbly]

1. Roll crimp/OAL - For 9mm, it's only a taper crimp, so I know for 38 special I will have to put a heavier crimp. I

Correction. You will be applying a totally different kind of crimp, which your dies are set up for.

Where do i crimp? Is it right on the groove sticking out closest to the nose of the bullet? Or is it the "middle hump." Once I set the seating die and the crimp, I can measure the OAL and make sure its greater than the minimum OAL in the load data. I tried to do some research on this, but I couldn't find a picture of 'before and after' of a bullet before it goes in, and then where its crimped once its in the case.

As others have said, place the roll crimp into the grove on the bullet (the cannelure) and you're done. You are confusing auto pistol procedures (OAL measurements) with those of revolvers (crimp into the cannelure).

You said you had Hodgdon HP-38 powder. In most reloading manuals this will be listed as Winchester 231, which is very, very popular. You should have no issues finding load info.

Hope this helps.

 

[WestKentucky]

Man,

All this 38 special talk makes me want to go shoot my 38's.

CH

Yep. Me too.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I was talking about finding new brass online, but yes there is a lot of used once fired available. I prefer not to deal with shipping.. USPS has a tendency to lose packages, especially around Christmas.

---
1300 cases is darn near a lifetime supply.

I average around 12 reloadings per case. I check them every time I reload them and most don't even show signs of thinning at the neck until around the 10th loading. You should be good for a long while.

 

[Walkalong]

Man,

All this 38 special talk makes me want to go shoot my 38's.

CH

Me too.

 

[Riomouse911]

You'll have PLENTY of .38 and .357 reloading experience on this board, these guys have been loading these rounds forever and a day.

The advice to flare a touch more for coated bullets is right on point, I shaved a few until I got the flare where I want it.
My personal all-time favorite load for the .38 is a 158 gr coated SWC over 4.5 gr Unique. In every .38/.357revolver I own this combo shoots very well for me.

As was said, your .38 Spl brass lasts a looong time. The pressures are mild, the brass doesn't fly out of your gun into the grass after every shot and a bit of care not overflaring/over crimping will extend the case life by not wearing the case mouth out so fast. (You'll get case mouth splits with older brass before you'll lose them.)

IMHO, nothing is more fun than loading for and shooting mid-frame .38/.357 revolvers...



Stay safe.