I have heard alot of people say they don't reload 40 ammo because of case bulging. I was wondering how some of you feel about this or if anyone has first hand experince with bulging. I just bought a glock 23 andwas wondering if I should buy factory or if it safe to reload.
Reloading 40SW
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rfwobbly
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My understanding is that the older Glocks were worse about this than the newer versions, so first we would have to ask if you what series gun did you purchase? Then we'd want to know if you want to reload to mimic SD loads, or something more "low power" for general target shooting?
• There are certainly dies that will remove the bulge, even down in the area of the rim. Not sure I would pump those type cases back up to max pressure, but they could certainly be used for plinking.
• With a Glock you can certainly fit a drop-in after-market barrel to add greater support and end future bulging.
• There are certainly dies that will remove the bulge, even down in the area of the rim. Not sure I would pump those type cases back up to max pressure, but they could certainly be used for plinking.
• With a Glock you can certainly fit a drop-in after-market barrel to add greater support and end future bulging.
I started reloading .40 S&W ammo 6 or 7 years ago, and I read the stuff about bulged cases. I've loaded thousands of rounds since then, and no troubles. I make the following observations, both from my own reading and from experience.
1. The majority of my cases are purchased once-fired or range pickups. Yes, .40 S&W brass can feel very different case to case going through the size die.* I use a Lee die set; the Lee size die has a sharper shoulder on the size die, whereas others taper and do not size the case as far down. The "dreaded bulge," when it occurs, is pretty far down on the case. I recommend the Lee size die, or a size die that sizes down as far as possible on the case.
2. I don't aim for maximum loads in .40 S&W, nor do I use heavy bullets. The "standard" factory bullet for .40 S&W is 180 gr. In my view, this is a heavy bullet, let alone the 200 gr. bullets some shoot. From my reading, I believe this is a result of the .40 S&W being the "little brother" of the 10mm, a significantly more powerful cartridge. The 180 gr .bullet was just brought over from the 10mm to the .40 S&W without much thought, while in my view a 155-165 gr. bullet is a better choice.
This being said,I by no means use blooper loads- my favorite load is 5.9 gr. of Hodgdon Universal with a 165 gr Rainier plated bullet, WSP primer. This load will generate around 1100 fps out of the 6" barrel on my G24. This load is warm, but produces NO expansion of the case head out of a Glock.
The secret is to use common sense in working up loads, as with any other caliber. There is an inherent engineering problem in attempting to support the case head in an automatic pistol that must also have a feed ramp to get ammo into the chamber. This is where the bulge occurs. More contemporary cases that have stronger case heads (like the .40) are actually better in this regard. Try to work up hot loads in an older semi-auto case like the .38 Super, one that's not going to have great support no matter how you design the feed ramp, and you're in for some excitement, sooner or later, when you start blowing out case heads. Ask me how I know.
*NB: In all the cases I've loaded, I have never seen one bulged so badly as to produce the "smiley face" seen in some pictures on the forums. If I did, I'd discard it.
1. The majority of my cases are purchased once-fired or range pickups. Yes, .40 S&W brass can feel very different case to case going through the size die.* I use a Lee die set; the Lee size die has a sharper shoulder on the size die, whereas others taper and do not size the case as far down. The "dreaded bulge," when it occurs, is pretty far down on the case. I recommend the Lee size die, or a size die that sizes down as far as possible on the case.
2. I don't aim for maximum loads in .40 S&W, nor do I use heavy bullets. The "standard" factory bullet for .40 S&W is 180 gr. In my view, this is a heavy bullet, let alone the 200 gr. bullets some shoot. From my reading, I believe this is a result of the .40 S&W being the "little brother" of the 10mm, a significantly more powerful cartridge. The 180 gr .bullet was just brought over from the 10mm to the .40 S&W without much thought, while in my view a 155-165 gr. bullet is a better choice.
This being said,I by no means use blooper loads- my favorite load is 5.9 gr. of Hodgdon Universal with a 165 gr Rainier plated bullet, WSP primer. This load will generate around 1100 fps out of the 6" barrel on my G24. This load is warm, but produces NO expansion of the case head out of a Glock.
The secret is to use common sense in working up loads, as with any other caliber. There is an inherent engineering problem in attempting to support the case head in an automatic pistol that must also have a feed ramp to get ammo into the chamber. This is where the bulge occurs. More contemporary cases that have stronger case heads (like the .40) are actually better in this regard. Try to work up hot loads in an older semi-auto case like the .38 Super, one that's not going to have great support no matter how you design the feed ramp, and you're in for some excitement, sooner or later, when you start blowing out case heads. Ask me how I know.
*NB: In all the cases I've loaded, I have never seen one bulged so badly as to produce the "smiley face" seen in some pictures on the forums. If I did, I'd discard it.
LiveLife
Member
I have competed with two Gen3 Glock 22s and shot several hundred thousand rounds of jacketed/plated reloads through factory barrels without any problems.
Many good pointers posted so far. Inspect your brass after range trip for damage and discard any questionable cases. Keep your loads below the published max load data and you should be fine. If you do see case bulges, reduce your charge or switch powders (Powders such as W231/HP38/Green Dot give you lower pressure mild recoil target load options). I typically use mid-high range load data for my Glocks (just enough to cycle the slide reliably).
A very light but accurate load I use is 3.8-4.3 gr of W231/HP38 using 180 gr TCFP bullet at 1.125" OAL.
Be safe, but you can certainly reload for Glocks. Have fun with your G23!
Many good pointers posted so far. Inspect your brass after range trip for damage and discard any questionable cases. Keep your loads below the published max load data and you should be fine. If you do see case bulges, reduce your charge or switch powders (Powders such as W231/HP38/Green Dot give you lower pressure mild recoil target load options). I typically use mid-high range load data for my Glocks (just enough to cycle the slide reliably).
A very light but accurate load I use is 3.8-4.3 gr of W231/HP38 using 180 gr TCFP bullet at 1.125" OAL.
Be safe, but you can certainly reload for Glocks. Have fun with your G23!
Bulged cases are weakened cases. .40S&W bulged cases are damaged cases. I will not shot a known damaged case in my gun.
If I can see or feel a bulge, it means the case is damaged.
I have gotten bulged cases at ~11,000psi in my S&W M52, which also has a barrel with poor chamber support (and no, they were not double or over charges; it was, as far as I could tell, old brass and a sloppy chamber fit).
I find that the .40S&W is even more sensitive to max loads than the 9x19 and will let you KNOW that you or over the limit (flattened primers, craters, case expansion).
I expect to be hearing about competitions with KBs due to people thinking that they have ironed out their problems.
PS: locally, I was going to take my EAA Witness Match to a local shoot. I called them up and I was told that you could ONLY fire factory ammo in a .45. You could use reloads for any other caliber, but not .40. I didn't care enough to go out and try to buy some virtually unobtainable factory ammunition.
If I can see or feel a bulge, it means the case is damaged.
I have gotten bulged cases at ~11,000psi in my S&W M52, which also has a barrel with poor chamber support (and no, they were not double or over charges; it was, as far as I could tell, old brass and a sloppy chamber fit).
I find that the .40S&W is even more sensitive to max loads than the 9x19 and will let you KNOW that you or over the limit (flattened primers, craters, case expansion).
I expect to be hearing about competitions with KBs due to people thinking that they have ironed out their problems.
PS: locally, I was going to take my EAA Witness Match to a local shoot. I called them up and I was told that you could ONLY fire factory ammo in a .45. You could use reloads for any other caliber, but not .40. I didn't care enough to go out and try to buy some virtually unobtainable factory ammunition.
CHEVELLE427
Member
i have loaded all kinds of 40 cases from all types of guns even glocks, i have looked at some under a magnifying glass and have not seen anything that would make me not load that case,
i understand glock has/had a unsupported chamber and just maybe that is why some glocks ka-boom , maybe it was a reload and the bulge was in the right place at the wrong time for a glock and boom, i do not know, what i do know is i have shot many 40sw out of my xd and have a few thousand loaded up waiting there turn .
and so far all is good.
i have a chance to trade a pt1911 for a g23, i just don't know if it is worth the chance as i load for all but rim fire
i understand glock has/had a unsupported chamber and just maybe that is why some glocks ka-boom , maybe it was a reload and the bulge was in the right place at the wrong time for a glock and boom, i do not know, what i do know is i have shot many 40sw out of my xd and have a few thousand loaded up waiting there turn .
and so far all is good.
i have a chance to trade a pt1911 for a g23, i just don't know if it is worth the chance as i load for all but rim fire
Define "bulged."
Captcurt
Member
Yeah! I've loaded the 40 for years without any problems. But then I shoot a Hi-power.
armyofmunn
Member
Be carefull shooting bulged cases out of a glock. If you do use a light load read warnings about using them. I use this I got from Midway that helped cure the bulge http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=882261 works good for me and some others I've talked to.again beware of shooting weak casings through any gun specialy a glock due to the chamber size at the 6 o'clock position where the casing is not as tight. That is where the blow outs usually occure.
CHEVELLE427
Member
my understanding is a bulge case from a glock is too low for the full size die to remove, now this is hear say,
i as well have had not trouble reloading any 40sw no matter what gun it came from , i also do not own a glock so that wont matter either if i was to shoot a reload round that came from a glock in my XD'S
Doc Simonson
Member
"If you own a firearm chambered for the 40 S&W, we recommend you contact the manufacturer to determine if the case is fully supported, or have a competent gunsmith examine the firearm and determine the amount of support provided the case. If your firearm does not provide complete support for the case, DO NOT USE Accurate Arms Company data or products to reload your 40 S&W ammunition." - from the Accurate website
Does this mean much more than Accurate covering their behind? I don't know because I am too new to reloading. My concern is, is the problem of case failures real, and is this a concern for the Springfield XD? My understanding is that the older Glocks had a problem because the case wasn't fully supported. Is the XD free from this problem? I noticed that the Springfield website doesn't have contact info for tech support, only sales and custom shop.
Does this mean much more than Accurate covering their behind? I don't know because I am too new to reloading. My concern is, is the problem of case failures real, and is this a concern for the Springfield XD? My understanding is that the older Glocks had a problem because the case wasn't fully supported. Is the XD free from this problem? I noticed that the Springfield website doesn't have contact info for tech support, only sales and custom shop.
CHEVELLE427
Member
i have an xdsc40 and so far all is good, have used accurate powder also and others, accurate does have a bit more recoil ,
i guess if i go through this few thousand i have loaded with no ka-boom my xd will have pass the test.
as will accurate powder
i guess if i go through this few thousand i have loaded with no ka-boom my xd will have pass the test.
as will accurate powder
Gadzooks Mike
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If you reload 40 S&W and shoot it from a Glock, all your brass will tarnish and your hair will fall out. If you reload with LEAD, you'll also get a flat tire. I read it on the Internet, so I'm pretty sure it's true.
However, I've reloaded a couple thousand rounds for my Glock, probably 70% of them lead, and everything is working fine so far. Make sure you get a good fit with the bullets and a decent powder load so you don't lead up the barrel. 40 S&W is a fairly high pressure round with little give and take. Don't try to push it. If you want to sling lead at 1500 fps, buy a rifle. Just common sense. Nothing wrong with reloads and Glocks at all.
We've all heard the stories about the Glock KABOOMs, but one thing I am very curious about and haven't heard an answer - how MANY KABOOMs have there been? Are we hearing about the same 5 incidents over and over?
However, I've reloaded a couple thousand rounds for my Glock, probably 70% of them lead, and everything is working fine so far. Make sure you get a good fit with the bullets and a decent powder load so you don't lead up the barrel. 40 S&W is a fairly high pressure round with little give and take. Don't try to push it. If you want to sling lead at 1500 fps, buy a rifle. Just common sense. Nothing wrong with reloads and Glocks at all.
We've all heard the stories about the Glock KABOOMs, but one thing I am very curious about and haven't heard an answer - how MANY KABOOMs have there been? Are we hearing about the same 5 incidents over and over?
Clark
Member
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
I put an empty case in the barrel and trace the outline of the feed ramp onto the case with needle.
Then I measure the distance from the base of the case to the highest point on the scribe line. This is my feed ramp intrusion measurement.
Then I cross section the brass. I measure the thickness of the case web.
The difference between the two numbers is the length of thin unsupported case wall.
This is where the guppy belly case bulge forms like blowing bubbles in bubble gum.
For an old Glock 22 40 S&W the feed ramp intrusion was .235"
For 40 S&W brass of various brands, the case web is .180"
That leaves .055" of thin unsupported case wall.
If I handload a round with 35% more powder than the max published load, I find the threshold of case bulge in the old Glock.
If I weld up the feed ramp and re cut the feed ramp and chamber with .000" of thin unsupported case wall, I cannot get case bulge with 146% extra powder. It is difficult to squeeze that much powder in the case and the recoil is horrific.
The_woodsman
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Clark,
Did you ever find a recoil spring that had a high enough rate to resist the force of those hotter loads - and do you have any idea what the rate was?
35-40 lbs. or so maybe?
Did you ever find a recoil spring that had a high enough rate to resist the force of those hotter loads - and do you have any idea what the rate was?
35-40 lbs. or so maybe?
KBintheSLC
Member
I have never had a single problem with any of my Glock'd .40 reloads. Just don't over load them and you'll be fine. Try the search feature for more info... I think I remember seeing at least 2-3 threads on the topic just in the past week.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
+1
I have reloaded for my 1st. gen Model 23 for about 15 years now.
180 or lighter bullets, mid-level powder charges.
Even a lot of cast lead bullets in the stock barrel. (Using very hard bullet alloy)
Never had the slightest sign of any problem, or a bulged case.
If you want a 10mm, buy a 10mm.
rc
The_woodsman
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I am considering using a 10mm to 40 conversion barrel in my G29 and loading up 200 gr. xtps in to around 1600 fps. In other words, realistic .41 S&W power.
Now I might have to get serious with recoil springs on my gun. Right now it only has 23# wolf in it and the 10mm @ mid 1200 fps loads are throwing brass 20' still.
Anyone have a decent idea for a serious recoil spring - like say maybe 30+ pound rate for this gun?
Thanks.
Now I might have to get serious with recoil springs on my gun. Right now it only has 23# wolf in it and the 10mm @ mid 1200 fps loads are throwing brass 20' still.
Anyone have a decent idea for a serious recoil spring - like say maybe 30+ pound rate for this gun?
Thanks.
With a nice medium burning powder, yes. With a fast burning powder like TiteGroup, you could get a big pressure spike and a blown up gun.
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