Hello. I've only been reloading for about 3 months. I reload for my 25-06 Savage 111 BTH. I have been reloading 120gr Partitions and 75gr V-Max. I have Barnes TSX 115gr on the way. I like to hunt hogs in Florida during the winter. The Barnes site only lists 2 Powders for 25-06 Rem on their site. Does anyone have favorite loads for this cal and bullet? BTW, I have H4831 but not H4831SC. Can I safely load H4831 at the same volume as H47831SC? H4831SC is one of the two powders listed by Barnes. BTW, I am new on this site but already impressed at the quality of the topics and discussion. Thanks....
Reloading Barnes for 25-06
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JimKirk
Member
I'll let others post on the Barnes ...
The H4831 and H4831SC are the same by "weight"(grains), but since the SC will take up less "volume" ... so no not by volume...
The H4831 and H4831SC are the same by "weight"(grains), but since the SC will take up less "volume" ... so no not by volume...
osprey176
Member
You should pick up a Barnes Reloading manual instead of only looking online. The #4 manual lists loads for RL 19,IMR 4831,Mag Pro,RL 22, Magnum,Retumbo,as well as H4831,all for the 115 grain TSX. I use the same bullets,but for a 257 Weatherby,so I don't have any suggested loads for you.
gamestalker
member
Yes, the data for either H4831SC and standard cut is identical. The only reason SC powders are manufactured, is to make it easier to use with powder measures, and to help with getting the powder to fit in compressed applications.
If you've never used Barnes bullets before, don't be alarmed at how much longer they are than a jacketed lead core bullet. And because of this, Barnes bullets have their own exclusive data as well.
Sorry, but I don't have a particular load to share, I haven't loaded for the 25-06 in many years, and that was just helping a friend.
GS
If you've never used Barnes bullets before, don't be alarmed at how much longer they are than a jacketed lead core bullet. And because of this, Barnes bullets have their own exclusive data as well.
Sorry, but I don't have a particular load to share, I haven't loaded for the 25-06 in many years, and that was just helping a friend.
GS
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Welcome to the forum...
If you want data for other powders you can go to the powder sites, they all supply data for their powders.
Hodgdon/ IMR/ Winchester Data: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
Alliant Data: http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx
Accurate and Ramshot Data: (Western Powders) http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_1-23-14.pdf
VihtaVuori Data: http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/rifle-reloading-data.html
Norma Data: http://www.norma.cc/en/Ammunition-Academy/Loading-Data/
JimKirk
Member
I have been loading the 25/06 since 1969... it is my favorite cartridge ... I experimented with the very early Barnes bullets, before all the improvements, I never did get those early ones to shoot any way that was good ... I have not tried any of the newer Barnes offerings, but know some who get very good results with those ... I've shot many many different powders in my 25/06 and have found IMR 7828 to work best for me and my rifle. You may find different... I am in the process of trying out some Retumbo and RL 25 ... I have not shot enough to say one way or the other ... this 100* plus weather makes shooting not a lot of fun ...
Thanks
Thanks to all for the advise. I have just ordered a Barnes #4 which ticks me a little since that will make my 4th manual. I can hardly wait to try the TSX as I think it should work well on hogs. One more question: I noticed there appears to be indented rings around the TSX bullet. Do I load them the same way as the others? It looks as if there would be gases leak around the indents. I guess the Barnes manual should answer all my questions. Thanks again.
Thanks to all for the advise. I have just ordered a Barnes #4 which ticks me a little since that will make my 4th manual. I can hardly wait to try the TSX as I think it should work well on hogs. One more question: I noticed there appears to be indented rings around the TSX bullet. Do I load them the same way as the others? It looks as if there would be gases leak around the indents. I guess the Barnes manual should answer all my questions. Thanks again.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
The rings are placed there to lower pressures. From what I've read the all gilded metal bullets are longer than cup and core bullets so there is more surface contact with the bullet and barrel. That was raising pressures so they added the rings to lessen the contact surface. Load them the same as your other bullet and ignore the rings. Of course you usually need less powder with them too.
JimKirk
Member
As long as that bottom ring seals the bore all is good .... you can be sure Barnes tested enough to know that those rings worked well ....
FLIGHT762
Member
If you decide to try some other Barnes bullets in the future, look at the Tipped TSX bullets, they have a 80 and 100 grain in 25 caliber. The 100 grain would be plenty for Hogs.
I think I just screwed up
Was reading the Barnes data and noticed the 115gr TSX is for a 1:9 twist barrel or FASTER. I have a 1:10 twist barrel on my Savage. I thought the higher the number the faster the twist but I was wrong. The lower the number the faster the twist. I may have a box of Barnes 115gr for sale cheap. I have discovered this is a complicated hobby where experience rules.
Was reading the Barnes data and noticed the 115gr TSX is for a 1:9 twist barrel or FASTER. I have a 1:10 twist barrel on my Savage. I thought the higher the number the faster the twist but I was wrong. The lower the number the faster the twist. I may have a box of Barnes 115gr for sale cheap. I have discovered this is a complicated hobby where experience rules.
osprey176
Member
Shoot some before you sell those bullets. At fairly close ranges,they may work fine. Barnes,and all non lead bullets are longer than lead core bullets,and longer bullets like a little faster twist to stabilize them. They can become unstable and keyhole at lower velocities. Don't start with a maximum load,but work up close and see how they group. Using a lighter non lead bullet works well,as they penetrate deep.Reloading is a great hobby,I've been at it for over thirty years and am still learning. Enjoy every lesson!
gamestalker
member
BTW, welcome to THE HIGH ROAD!
I just looked at my Lyman, and it states in there that all there loads were developed using a 1-10 twist, and those loads include bullets up to 120 grs.. 1-10 is pretty much the standard for modern 25-06's I think, so you might be just fine with those 100 gr. bullets.
I realize the Barnes is a longer profiled bullet, but I wouldn't go selling those off quite yet. If you have any RL22, RL19, IMR-7828, or H1000, you might be able to get just enough additional velocity to make them work?
GS
I just looked at my Lyman, and it states in there that all there loads were developed using a 1-10 twist, and those loads include bullets up to 120 grs.. 1-10 is pretty much the standard for modern 25-06's I think, so you might be just fine with those 100 gr. bullets.
I realize the Barnes is a longer profiled bullet, but I wouldn't go selling those off quite yet. If you have any RL22, RL19, IMR-7828, or H1000, you might be able to get just enough additional velocity to make them work?
GS
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I guess Barnes can't agree with themselves. Your Barnes load data book tells you to use a 1:9 twist with their 115gr TSX bullet but their online load data lists a 1:10 twist when they developed the data for the 115gr TSX bullet.
Since they can't even get the twist rate nailed down you can probably shoot that 115gr bullet in your 1:10 twist barrel. Much of the time the bullet weight where they change to a faster rate recommendation will still shoot fine, they will always error on the side of being sure the bullet will stabilize.
The Barnes manual may say 1:9 but the Barnes online data says 1:10. You should be fine...
I am going to try them out. Hope that works because I have heard good things about Barnes TSX. To put a round through the front gristle plate of a hog with penetration and expansion is no easy task.
41 Mag
Member
I've been loading for and shooting a 25-06 since back in the late 80's. The 1-10" twist will handle the Barnes just fine out to around 400 or so yards where they start to get a bit weird as the velocity starts to drop off. Not that they won't still hit and kill but the groups seem to start to spread out as they reach out a bit.
In mine I use RL-22 almost exclusively. I have tried everything else that has been listed as well as a few that weren't, but always came back to 22 due to the excellent accuracy and velocity I got. All rifles are different, but if your not getting what you like with 4831, see if you can round up or trade out a friend for some 22 and give it a try. I use RL-19 for the lighter weight bullets in mine and the 22 for everything 110gr and up. Its for the most part an off the shelf 700 BDL which I swapped the stock out for a Fajen laminate years ago. That is the only thing I have done with it, and it will hold groups as tight as anyone shooting can out to as far as you want to go.
Stick with standard primers, the magnums seem to give erratic velocity spreads, at least with my loads. I use the CCI-BR2 and Win-WLR primers the most and have found them to always do what is needed.
That Barnes should do the job on the hogs for sure. I have used the older original X in both 100 and 115gr, plenty of times on them and had no problems what so ever. They simply got a bit much for me picking them up one box here and one there. I had purchased some of the 115gr Partitions years ago and since they weren't available at the LGS I ordered plenty at one time. They have for the most part been our go to bullet ever since. We tried out the 110gr Accubond over the same load we use for the Partition, and it shoots just as accurate. We changed nothing but the bullet, and the first three shots were in such a small cluster we had to ride out to the 200yd target to see they just made a group like the Ace of Clubs
You also might find that you will need to set your bullet back from the lands at least .050" to start with. I know this was recommended with the early ones due to them being more of a solid. I'm not sure if this still applies to the newer ones or not, but if you see high pressures with starting loads, this will probably be the issue.
Hope this helps
In mine I use RL-22 almost exclusively. I have tried everything else that has been listed as well as a few that weren't, but always came back to 22 due to the excellent accuracy and velocity I got. All rifles are different, but if your not getting what you like with 4831, see if you can round up or trade out a friend for some 22 and give it a try. I use RL-19 for the lighter weight bullets in mine and the 22 for everything 110gr and up. Its for the most part an off the shelf 700 BDL which I swapped the stock out for a Fajen laminate years ago. That is the only thing I have done with it, and it will hold groups as tight as anyone shooting can out to as far as you want to go.
Stick with standard primers, the magnums seem to give erratic velocity spreads, at least with my loads. I use the CCI-BR2 and Win-WLR primers the most and have found them to always do what is needed.
That Barnes should do the job on the hogs for sure. I have used the older original X in both 100 and 115gr, plenty of times on them and had no problems what so ever. They simply got a bit much for me picking them up one box here and one there. I had purchased some of the 115gr Partitions years ago and since they weren't available at the LGS I ordered plenty at one time. They have for the most part been our go to bullet ever since. We tried out the 110gr Accubond over the same load we use for the Partition, and it shoots just as accurate. We changed nothing but the bullet, and the first three shots were in such a small cluster we had to ride out to the 200yd target to see they just made a group like the Ace of Clubs
You also might find that you will need to set your bullet back from the lands at least .050" to start with. I know this was recommended with the early ones due to them being more of a solid. I'm not sure if this still applies to the newer ones or not, but if you see high pressures with starting loads, this will probably be the issue.
Hope this helps
ArchAngelCD
Member.
No, not an easy thing at all but more than doable.
Winchester is marketing "Razorback XT" ammo designed specifically for hogs and they are loading an copper bullet that looks like the Barnes bullet.
Remington has their "Hog Hammer" ammo and they admit it's loaded with the Barnes TSX bullet.
Of course Barnes loads their "VOR-TX" ammo with their TSX and TTSX bullet but the price, wow!!! ($42/20)
My buddy is loading all copper alloy bullets for hunting hogs lately and he has been using a Hornady GMX bullet. He has gotten very good results with accuracy and terminal performance too. He's shooting the 70gr GMX bullet in a 22-250. Hornady has a 90gr GMX .257" bullet that should work just as well in the 25-06.
Nosler has their "E-Tip" copper bullet but I don't know anyone who has used them. Of course Nosler makes excellent hunting bullets so I see no reason why the E-tip would be any less effective than their AccuBond or Partition bullet. Their .257" E-Tip bullet weighs 100gr so that is closer to what you bought than the Hornady bullet and @ 100gr you are sure your barrel will stabilize it.
I'm only mentioning this because components are hard to find and it will give you other alternatives. Price is about the same for them all so that's not an issue.
Winchester is marketing "Razorback XT" ammo designed specifically for hogs and they are loading an copper bullet that looks like the Barnes bullet.
Remington has their "Hog Hammer" ammo and they admit it's loaded with the Barnes TSX bullet.
Of course Barnes loads their "VOR-TX" ammo with their TSX and TTSX bullet but the price, wow!!! ($42/20)
My buddy is loading all copper alloy bullets for hunting hogs lately and he has been using a Hornady GMX bullet. He has gotten very good results with accuracy and terminal performance too. He's shooting the 70gr GMX bullet in a 22-250. Hornady has a 90gr GMX .257" bullet that should work just as well in the 25-06.
Nosler has their "E-Tip" copper bullet but I don't know anyone who has used them. Of course Nosler makes excellent hunting bullets so I see no reason why the E-tip would be any less effective than their AccuBond or Partition bullet. Their .257" E-Tip bullet weighs 100gr so that is closer to what you bought than the Hornady bullet and @ 100gr you are sure your barrel will stabilize it.
I'm only mentioning this because components are hard to find and it will give you other alternatives. Price is about the same for them all so that's not an issue.
You mentioned primers
I am printing out some of these responses to save for reference. Speaking of primers, I purchased 1000 WLR's when I bought my RCBS reloading equipment. They are all I have ever used. Everyone of them show signs of flattening on every load and bullet combo. And believe me, I don't push max loads at all. I have never loaded beyond mid-range on the chart. I'm not experienced enough to do that yet. The WLR flatten the same for them all. My gun store guy doesn't seem to be concerned about so I'm ignoring it for now. There is still a little channel around the pocket so I guess I'm alright but it does not look like the factory fired ones. I check ever spent brass for signs of splitting, primer blowout, etc. The only split neck I ever saw was on a factory round. As soon as my Barnes manual comes, I am going to do some trial & error loading. I also have a LnL gage and have tested my rifle several times and came to a 3.168 conclusion on the 120 Partitions. However, guys on another forum told me to always set to the depth that the manual shows as the "tested COL" which in my case for the Partitions is 3.200. Still the same flattening of the primers. There are so many variables. I should have started when I was younger
I am printing out some of these responses to save for reference. Speaking of primers, I purchased 1000 WLR's when I bought my RCBS reloading equipment. They are all I have ever used. Everyone of them show signs of flattening on every load and bullet combo. And believe me, I don't push max loads at all. I have never loaded beyond mid-range on the chart. I'm not experienced enough to do that yet. The WLR flatten the same for them all. My gun store guy doesn't seem to be concerned about so I'm ignoring it for now. There is still a little channel around the pocket so I guess I'm alright but it does not look like the factory fired ones. I check ever spent brass for signs of splitting, primer blowout, etc. The only split neck I ever saw was on a factory round. As soon as my Barnes manual comes, I am going to do some trial & error loading. I also have a LnL gage and have tested my rifle several times and came to a 3.168 conclusion on the 120 Partitions. However, guys on another forum told me to always set to the depth that the manual shows as the "tested COL" which in my case for the Partitions is 3.200. Still the same flattening of the primers. There are so many variables. I should have started when I was younger
gamestalker
member
I wanted to add one more to the list of good bullets for this task Arch, that being the Speer line up.
Hot Core, which is available in a variety of weights. this is a bonded core projectile.
Then the Grand Slam, only available in a 120 gr. weight, but a very well constructed bullet designed for heavy mass penetration. A good choice for large game like elk, hogs, ect..
And of course the Deep Curl, which is also only available in 120 gr.. This is a plated bullet, but not the average plated bullet. It is designed for penetrating heavy mass, such that of elk, and I'm sure hogs.
I like these Speer bullets, they are significantly less expensive than most other bonded core bullets on the market, and they fly very accurately and definitely hold up well on big elk sized game.
GS
Hot Core, which is available in a variety of weights. this is a bonded core projectile.
Then the Grand Slam, only available in a 120 gr. weight, but a very well constructed bullet designed for heavy mass penetration. A good choice for large game like elk, hogs, ect..
And of course the Deep Curl, which is also only available in 120 gr.. This is a plated bullet, but not the average plated bullet. It is designed for penetrating heavy mass, such that of elk, and I'm sure hogs.
I like these Speer bullets, they are significantly less expensive than most other bonded core bullets on the market, and they fly very accurately and definitely hold up well on big elk sized game.
GS
What would be the number one choice for hogs?
41 Mag
Member
Looking at those primers I don't see anything of concern. You might even see a more normal looking one once you bump up you load some. Sometimes you get that with slower powders from the case being driven forward before it expands, the pressure builds and pushes the primer out slightly, then the pressure shoves it back, mashing the primer.
Hogs aren't armor plated. In reality the same ol cup and core bullets that work so well on deer will very reliably put a hog down especially working in the 28 to 2900 fps range. This is however a mid range load for the 25 depending on bullet weight. The 115-117 gr weights do fine as in the Hornady. That said though, steer clear of the 120gh Hornady HP. While it is marketed as being a tougher jacketed hunting bullet, my experiences have shown otherwise.
Hogs aren't armor plated. In reality the same ol cup and core bullets that work so well on deer will very reliably put a hog down especially working in the 28 to 2900 fps range. This is however a mid range load for the 25 depending on bullet weight. The 115-117 gr weights do fine as in the Hornady. That said though, steer clear of the 120gh Hornady HP. While it is marketed as being a tougher jacketed hunting bullet, my experiences have shown otherwise.
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