Reloading Defensive Ammunition?

[Joshua M. Smith]

Hello,

I would like your take on this.

I know the gun rags would have you believe that reloading ammo for defense is a bad idea.

However, I've yet to find a steady supply of defensive ammo - but I do have a ready supply of components in .45acp: Brass (new if I want), 230gn old style Remington HP bullets, which I love, and Winchester primers.

I seat to a depth of 1.265" COL, charged with 5.2gn of Bullseye, which is the maximum I find listed for this style bullet. No pressure signs and I'm seated a bit further out.

This combo has no muzzle flash and at least keeps up with the modern, expensive factory offerings.

It feeds very reliably, and I have complete and total confidence in the load and my ability to reload. The primers never touch my hands, for example - no contamination at all the way I do it (I work in medicine and use many of the same cross-contamination prevention procedures in reloading as we do with patients). (I recently had to run a very well known and popular name brand through a resizing die to make it work - it looked very hurried and would not feed correctly - definitely not what it used to be).

Honestly, it's the best load I've found. And the cheapest. And did I mention it keeps up with modern wonder bullets?

I've not seen one single case in which reloads came into play if a shoot was righteous.

Can'o'worms open; what are your opinions?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[Shadan7]

I reload - practice ammo. For carry ammo, it's all factory. Why take the chance?

Jim D.

 

[Deanimator]

I use only factory ammunition for self-defense, JHPs (or LSWC-HPs) in every case.

Given my knowledge and my constant education of my attorney on gun related matters, I could PROBABLY use handloads and at least not be CONVICTED of anything.

That being said, handloads introduce forensic ambiguities. I see no reason to add unnecessary points of failure in my self-defense strategy.

Besides, while I handload better rifle ammunition (and loads NOBODY offers) than any commercial manufacturer, there's nothing I can do with self-defense handgun ammunition that any quality manufacturer doesn't already do.

 

[GRIZ22]

I've not seen one single case in which reloads came into play if a shoot was righteous.


If it's a clear cut SD scenario you won't. If there are questions about you may.

You can duplicate forensics using factory ammo. You can also do it with reloads but it all depends if the jury wants to believe that's what your gun was loaded with. No question on the forensics with factory ammo.

I have no questions regarding the reliability of my reloads as they have passed the most strigent inspoector...me. I carry factory ammo. If you have a load that duplicates a factory round use that for practice and factory for carry. The cost of a box of ammo is less than having to pay a lawyer to prove you right.

 

[TCOV]

If you are carefull with your loading practices there is no reason not to load for carry. Factory ammo is good but not always perfect. I have read about perceived legal problems but not seen an actual case either. Easy answer, I use reloads because they are cheaper than factory ammo.

 

[Beelzy]

Cor-Bons for defensive ammo.

Nobody makes a finer "flying ashtray" JHP in .45ACP (my defensive caliber choice)

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

Well, if your factory ammo fails in a defensive encounter and you survive, you can always sue the manufacturer. Can't do that if you're the one who made it.

Joking aside...

I don't have a problem with reloading your own defensive ammunition. Sometimes that's all you have. Sometimes that's all you can afford. And as long as you pay attention to what you're doing, it should work just fine.

I have no idea how many rounds I've reloaded, but it's been bunches and bunches and bunches of 45ACP. I've also fired a similar crapload of commercial rounds. In all of that time I recall one failure to fire, and that was with commercial ammunition.

Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe I simply haven't done enough shooting of either my own reloads or commercial ammunition. But I will say this, I reloaded in small batches at a time for the express purpose of doing so with precision, without distraction, and without fatigue (I'm much more prone to screw ups when tired or distracted).

That said, did I prefer my reloads to commercial defensive ammunition, and would I make such a choice today? No. But that's because I reloaded out of sheer college-kid poverty and a desire to shoot, which meant that the cases used weren't nickel-plated or otherwise magically lubricious, primers weren't sealed, and the bullets weren't any more special than run-of-the-mill hollowpoints. In short, I could make useful ammution, but certainly not better than premium commercial ammo.

 

[mljdeckard]

It is POSSIBLE that a rookie DA trying to make a name for himself will try to make a thing out of it? Yes. Likely? Not very. I THINK, if they are down to what kind of bullet you used, they are clinging to anything they can to try to stick you with the crime. This is when they try to smear you for caliber choice, evil features, modifications, trigger weight, etc. If I were a prosecutor, (And I am not close yet,) I wouldn't go to court armed ONLY with the fact that you used handloads. And if I had a SOLID case, why would I be nitpicking about it either?

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

That being said, handloads introduce forensic ambiguities. I see no reason to add unnecessary points of failure in my self-defense strategy.

There is a good reason right there.

However, I've yet to find a steady supply of defensive ammo - but I do have a ready supply of components in .45acp: Brass (new if I want), 230gn old style Remington HP bullets, which I love, and Winchester primers.

Handload all the practice ammo you want (but you can substitute less expensive FMJs, plated bullets or even LRN) and shoot that to your heart's content for practice or competition. But you only need enough of the factory JHP loads to establish reliability and fill the magazine(s) of your carry weapon(s), not a "steady supply" (if I understand your meaning correctly).

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've not seen one single case in which reloads came into play if a shoot was righteous.

I use whatever I feel is the most effective ammunition.

Something that comes to mind is the Makarov. The standard muzzle velocity for the 9x18 is 1,000 fps. I have worked up a load that does 1,125 FPS using a Speer Gold Dot or Hornady bullet. If I used the Mak for defense it would be loaded with those rounds.

The gun rags post so much hype it's surprising that people that believe that stuff aren't too afraid to use their guns at all.

I have no idea how many rounds I've reloaded, but it's been bunches and bunches and bunches of 45ACP. I've also fired a similar crapload of commercial rounds. In all of that time I recall one failure to fire, and that was with commercial ammunition.

I have reloaded uncounted hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition. I don't have any figures but without a doubt if the ratio of failed hand-loads was compared to a ratio of the factory ammunition I've shot, the failure rate of factory ammo far exceeds the reloads.
I will trust factory defense ammo if I have to, but I'd trust my reloads more.
Like when I bought a box of .380 JHP +P MagTech for carry ammo and the first round was a squib that hardly made it out of the barrel.

 

[Girodin]

I've not seen one single case in which reloads came into play if a shoot was righteous.

Despite all the talk about it I have never seen anyone present any case where it was a factor period. If someone knows of one i would be interested to see it.

 

[Frank Ettin]

This has been discussed extensively on this board. See the following threads:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=434947

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=396040

...I've not seen one single case in which reloads came into play if a shoot was righteous....

But you're not the one who gets to decide if the shoot was righteous. If there's disagreement on that point, it'll be up to a jury to decide.

In any case, after over 30 years practicing law, I have some understanding of how the legal system works. I won't use handloads for self defense.

 

[MinnMooney]

I don't know the law but I'm of the opinion that you should use whatever is available in defense of your life. If that happens to be L.E., TAP, Gold Dot, FMJ mil. surp., a wooden spear that you carved or an old toilet seat, use it to stay alive or to stop the threat.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I don't know the law but I'm of the opinion that you should use whatever is available in defense of your life. If that happens to be L.E., TAP, Gold Dot, FMJ mil. surp., a wooden spear that you carved or an old toilet seat, use it to stay alive or to stop the threat.

That's fine. And if you are caught unprepared, you will need to make do with whatever is at hand.

But if you have choices about what you keep readily available for self defense, those choices could make it easier or harder for you to prevail in the legal maelstrom that is likely to follow. Personally, if I can improve my chances for prevailing in the legal aftermath of a self defense event, without impairing my ability to defend myself, I'm going to be very interested.

 

[navyretired 1]

I would like nothing better than to use my own loads, but you never know when some political appointed DA who is looking for a high profile case will decide that this is the one. He will beleave that the liberal media and political sheep will love him and make his career if he really jerks your chain about using killer handloads. His theory which he will crow every where he goes will be that factory ammo was not deadly enough for you so you made your own. Now this poor former gang banger who had finally found Christ and was starting to turn his life around would not be starting his first job BLA BLA BLA.
Beg, Borrow, or steal factory ammo for self defence, why take the chance that the above scenerio could happen.
On TV and in the Yellow rags the Poor dead boy is always getting straight according to his Mom, Sister and the three Mothers of his three kids. He'd just got out of prison and was fixing to start a job. He was only out celibrating his release from jail when this armed to the teeth trouble maker went out looking for trouble and chose this poor former BG.
The Poor boy's friends say that the shooters claim that the kid had a gun was wrong and police found no other weapons when they arrived 30 minutes after shooting. They enterveiwed shooter at hospital where he had been taken after kids friends had overwelmed and sudued him. They accidentally almost beat him to death when he kept brandishing and threatening with his deadly Kel-Tec P32 bystanders finally managed to disarm the shooter. His special plastic gun which is designed to hide in the pocket had his custom made killer bullets in it. The Kel-Tec revolver is special made to be invisable to X-ray's and the 32 caliber bullets are even larger than our former military 30 caliber bullets.
We've all seen this crap happen so why take a chance. The liberal media will lie, misdirect, and overstate any way they want because they can and will. That couragous DA will be put on a public pedistal for his agressive pursuit of justice BLA, BLA, BLA

 

[MinnMooney]

Wouldn't using hand-loaded hollow points be about the same as using L.E. hollow points or, for that matter, any HP? I don't load mine any hotter than TAP or Spear Gol Dot HPs. In many cases, it's exactly the same bullet. The only diff is who happened to place that bullet in the case.

It's just my opinion but I really can't see what all of the hulabaloo is all about. How can a D.A. "make a case" against a hald loaded round that is identical to a factory round?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...It's just my opinion but I really can't see what all of the hulabaloo is all about. How can a D.A. "make a case" against a hald loaded round that is identical to a factory round?...

Pretty much everything is covered in the two threads to which I posted links. Don't really see much point to going over everything again.

 

[Sunray]

It's all about your lawyer. A good one will shoot down a DA who tries to say reloaded ammo was used because the shooter wanted to shoot somebody, in a heart beat. Reloading is about using the best ammo(most accurate) possible. Improves the shooter's ability to avoid 'bystanders' getting shot.
"...some political appointed DA..." They not elected where you are? Assistant DA's are hired, of course, but get told what they're going to do by the elected DA.

 

[Oyeboten]

Untill the advent of the Metallic Cartridge, all 'SD' situations relied on hand-loads...


Lol...


But yes...Factory Boxed 'Black Talons' or 'Powerball' or +P+ Hollow-Points will impress an emotionally sensitive Jury with one's humane hedging for minimilization of harm to the recipient, where, a hand-load 'saami' friendly .38 special RNL Bullet will invite suspicion of premeditated vileness, or extremism.


Oye...

 

[Frank Ettin]

It's all about your lawyer. A good one will shoot down a DA who tries to say reloaded ammo was used because the shooter wanted to shoot somebody, in a heart beat....

Really? Are you so sure? It's your freedom at stake. Do you really want to make it harder on your lawyer? Go for it. It's not may problem.

On the other hand, I personally prefer to have done anything I reasonably can ahead of time to help my lawyer, if it ever comes to that.

...Reloading is about using the best ammo(most accurate) possible. Improves the shooter's ability to avoid 'bystanders' getting shot...

Bah! In self defense conditions, there's no meaningful accuracy advantage with handloads. This isn't about precision shooting and sub MOA groups at 100 yards. If you can't shoot well enough with good quality, commercial self defense ammunition to avoid missing your target at 5 to 10, or even 15, yards, you're not going to do any better with handloads.

In any case, those kinds of arguments are too "inside baseball." Your jury will generally be made up of folks with no particular interest in, or knowledge about, guns or shooting. Technical arguments will be lost on them.

 

[navyretired 1]

The poor lost sheep beleave in Santa Clause And Super NRA lawyers. Unfortunetly. Super NRA lawyers need something to counter with and the public draws it's info from media, which never accuratly report progun information.
The media go out of their way to insure anti gun drival is reported exactly as the anti-gun speakers lay it down smooth and beleavable.

 

[MinnMooney]

Many reloaders (almost including me) have loaded and shot 10's of thousands of rounds without ever buying a loaded cartridge. I only buy loaded ammo when there's a great sale. That way I can shoot the factory stuff and have the brass for reloading. Really cheap.

With that said, all of my self-defense ammo (except 12 ga.) are reloads. I believe that it would look worse to a jury if it was brought out that I reload all of my own handgun and rifle ammo only to buy expensive factory stuff to carry for SD. Is it more powerful? Were you carrying it and looking for a fight? Did you brag about being "police like" or "tactical" because the box had a cool name like Law Enforcement or TAP?

Instead, I just loaded up some rounds using free bullets from a Hornady promotion. Pretty milk-toast.


P.S. to fiddletown : Please stop telling everyone to look at old posts because just maybe we have something that WE want to say instead of just reading others' opinions.
I notice that you've posted 4 times in this thread.... that's more than anyone else. Why not just post in some thread that you'd enjoy more instead of doing what you're doing. No bad thoughts here - I'm just trying to understand what fellow THR'rs think about hand loads vs factory ammo.

 

[navyretired 1]

MinnMooney : In a just world you'd be absolutley right but the legal world isn't just or even fair. I think that answering that I'd shot 1000's of rounds of any kind of ammo factory or reloads would be a negative facter in a trial. I mean how would we get the jury box full of NRA LIFE members. I bet the DA would ask that at jury selection.

 

[oldfool]

never let common sense interfere with reality
load factory for SD

 

[markb]

+1 to MinnMooney. I have loaded all my ammunition for 40 years and have complete confidence in the reloads. Why trust someone else?