Reloading for lever guns - Crimping?

[george_co]

The only caliber I reload for is .41 Mag. I own 3 revolvers and a Marlin 1895 FG (I think that is the right model No.). I know that I need to be somewhat concerned with the revolver ammo, but I am much more concerned with the spring in the tubular magazine of the lever action causing the bullet to push deeper in the case than it should be.

Is there some way to test, objectively, how effective the crimp has been done to insure that no set back of the bullet occurs. To date I have refused to use handloads in my rifle for fear of having an unpleasant experience. I can buy a lot of factory ammo for the price of replacing the rifle.

 

[Cosmoline]

Just crimp and put them in the magazine. Or you can test by pressing down on the bullet as it's seated. If the bullet falls down into the brass, so what? You just pull it and try again with a better crimp.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Crimp the same for the rifle as you do for the pistol. If you didn't have enough crimp when firing the pistol, you'd probably know it by now. Magnum pistol rounds need a good crimp to provide uniform pressure and to make sure the bullet isn't unseated during recoil. Same as in the rifle. I've seen people over-crimp rounds intended for the rifle. This can be detrimental to the shooting experience.

Look at it this way, Is the box of WinX or what ever you're buying for the rifle marked 'extra crimp for rifles', or is it run of the mill ammunition to be shot in a rifle or a pistol?

-Steve

 

[george_co]

Thanks

Thanks for the responses. I guess I will do what I had thought about doing, which was to measure out 10 rounds, load up the magazine, and unload in a week and see if the total length of the 10 rounds changes. I might try thumping the rifle butt on the ground (w/o round in chamber) to simulate recoil.

Thanks again.
George

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If your crimp is strong enough for a revolver, it's strong enough for a tubular magazine. Revolver crimps need to be firm, both to hold the bullet in recoil and to allow pressure for proper combustion of the powder.

 

[SHavis]

What -is- a good crimp?

I've been thinking about this topic some. Being new to reloading (for both revolver & lever gun, too) I know I need a good crimp, but all I have heard so for is "good, tight, firm". All sort of subjective. The only non-subjuctive description I've read deals with removing the bullet to be sure the crimp hasn't cut through the copper jacket and that may be a little excessive. To date, I've just made sure the crimp looks like factory ammo. Any thoughts?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The best advice is "Ask the gun."

Are your bullets creeping out and tying up the cylinder? Is there a lot of unburned powder in the gun when you clean it? If the answer is "no," then you have enough crimp.

Are your loads accurate? If the answer is "yes," then you don't have excessive crimp.

 

[redneck2]

I'd suspect the slight amount of pressure from the spring is nothing compared to recoil in a revolver. Use the age old scientific method of holding the bullet in your fingers and pushing against the edge of a counter as hard as you can. If your weight doesn't move it, a tube mag spring sure won't

 

[oscar]

You should be able to see the crimp. Cast bullets and many jacketed ones have a cannelure that you can roll the case into. 41 mags, esp with heavy loads require a strong crimp. I have a Win 94 in 44 mag that I have fired many of my reloads in without any problems.

 

[Nhsport]

I am not sure about your load it up and wait a week test.The spring isn't going to move any of the bullets around when the gun is just sitting there unless your loads are really messed up. Because tthe rifle is several times heavier than a pistol if your pistol loads are not shifting around during recoil I can not immagine the same loads moveing in the rifle. If you have weak crimps the most likley place for setback to happen is when the cartridge is being chambered. Go to the range with your reloads and with the gun pointed downrange for saftey cycle your rounds through the gun at different speeds and see if any move.
All of my pistol caliber loads get standard pistol type crimps and they have worked fine in my lever guns. In my testing top accuracy has only occured with firm consistent crimps is both pistol and pistol caliber rifle loads. To get consistent crimps cases must be nearly the same length. This means trimming or sorting cases to keep each batch similar length.

 

[rob_helms]

I shoot an 1894 Marlin in .41 in cowboy competition. I agree with redneck2's system. I test by pushing the nose of the bullet against a bench. If it doesn't move, the crimp is good. If you are roll crimping (standard pistol dies usually roll crimp) Nhsport's point about case length is spot on. If you want a real world test, load 10 rounds, shoot 8 of them, eject and inspect the last 2 loaded rounds. If you have a crimp problem, the last 2 rounds should show it.

 

[Chief 101]

"If your crimp is strong enough for a revolver, it's strong enough for a tubular magazine. Revolver crimps need to be firm, both to hold the bullet in recoil and to allow pressure for proper combustion of the powder."

Vern has it. You need a good crimp for a rovolver and that's more than enouogh for the rifle magazine. Keep your brass trimmed to the same length so you get the same crimp on every case. Chief

 

[halvey]

I guess I will do what I had thought about doing, which was to measure out 10 rounds, load up the magazine, and unload in a week and see if the total length of the 10 rounds changes.

That won't tell you a thing. Recoil then the ratteling around of the rounds in the mag is what causes setback

I might try thumping the rifle butt on the ground (w/o round in chamber) to simulate recoil.

Ok, I doubt that'd work. It's not the same as recoil.

 

[wrangler5]

If you're REALLY concerned about what happens to your loads in a rifle magazine, measure the length of your rounds and then fill the magazine and shoot one round. Then load a fresh one in the magazine (I think that will be the second in line, now) and shoot another. Then load another one in the magazine and repeat - your front 7-8 loads will now remain in the gun while you shoot. Do that a dozen or so times, then unload and check the length of each round as it's removed. If that first one (the one at the back end of the stack in the magazine) hasn't shortened after getting bashed by the mass of all the rest in front of it, your crimp is just fine.

 

[ReloaderFred]

If you have access to older Handloader Magazines, try to find Issue #121, from May-June, 1986, and Issue #176, August-September, 1995. Both issues have really good, in-depth articles on handloading for the Marlin .41 Carbine, both with jacketed bullets and cast bullets.

I have three .41 Marlin Carbines, and they are very accurate for this type of rifle. The best load I've found for mine is the Hornady 210 gr. JHP bullet, 21.5 grains of Winchester 296 and a Winchester Large Pistol Primer, for a nominal velocity of 1,740 fps from the Carbine. Use a good roll crimp and you won't have any problems. This load is "Carbine Specific", and is a little too hot for revolvers, in my opinion, but delivers great accuracy, without excess pressure signs, from my Carbines.

I use a Marlin .357 Carbine for Cowboy Action Shooting, and I've fired thousands of rounds of reloads through it, without any problems. You just have to use a roll crimp, and you can use a factory round as a guide for how much crimp to apply.

If you can't find the copies of the magazines, you can PM me and I can mail you copies of the articles.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

The roll crimp will tend to tighten and bury itself deeper into the canelure if the bullet gets pushed in in a tubular mag, whereas the crimp tends to straighten out during bullet jump in a revolver.

Andy

 

[Bad Flynch]

The Lee Factory Crimp Die is super for solving your problem.