Reloading for the .357 Magnum

[Old Grumpy]

E.K. would be rolling over in his grave.

Don

I ordered 500 Starline cases last fall. When I worked them up I seated SPP in half and SPM in the other half. I normally use standard small pistol primers with 2400 so I knew I'd use them sooner or later.

Grumpy

 

[joneb]

For a Ruger Sec. Six w/a 2.75" barrel with 158gr jacketed my favorites are Accurate #7,#9 and 2400. I have had good results with #9 and 2400 with GM-200 and standard small pistol primers.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I think you'll like 2400, and second the advice on standard primers for it.

You're also missing out on a wonderful world for the .357, by not exploring light loads with DEWC(s) or HBWC(s) for primo target accuracy.

Squeeze in some 148 Gr HBWC testing with about 3.9 Gr of bullseye (in a .357 case) and standard primers. My bet is that is outshoots all of the other loads you listed.

4.0 Gr of W/231 and a 158 Gr LSWC (in .357 Brass) is wonderful too!

I also shoot 14.0 Gr of 2400, standard primers, and Montana Gold or XTP 158 Gr JHPs.

My Model 19's and 686 love 'em.

 

[billybob44]

+1 on the HBWC....

Squeeze in some 148 Gr HBWC testing with about 3.9 Gr of bullseye (in a .357 case) and standard primers. My bet is that is outshoots all of the other loads you listed.

Last Sat. made a trade with a Buddie of mine for an 8" Colt Trooper MK III.
I "Rang" a 12" steel plate @75 yds. 4 out of the first cyl full of it, with that load, offhand, no rest, with my usual 60 year old UNSTEADYNESS...Bill

 

[ku4hx]

I've used all the powders you mention, in one loading or another, for many years. My best loads came with 2400. I still have a couple of the smallish square "pop top" cans for the '60s.

Then I discovered W296 and H110. Highest velocities and accuracy was fine.

Now days I stick with those ball and granulated powders that run through my various powder measures with ease and accuracy that generate good velocities and commensurate accuracy. For me currently, that's AA#9 and 2400 for magnum level velocities.

 

[Old Grumpy]

I think you'll like 2400, and second the advice on standard primers for it.

You're also missing out on a wonderful world for the .357, by not exploring light loads with DEWC(s) or HBWC(s) for primo target accuracy.

Squeeze in some 148 Gr HBWC testing with about 3.9 Gr of bullseye (in a .357 case) and standard primers. My bet is that is outshoots all of the other loads you listed.

4.0 Gr of W/231 and a 158 Gr LSWC (in .357 Brass) is wonderful too!

I also shoot 14.0 Gr of 2400, standard primers, and Montana Gold or XTP 158 Gr JHPs.

My Model 19's and 686 love 'em.

I load a lot of .38 spl for my Bride's S&W Model 64 2" and they perform excellent in my Security Sixes. I take a bit more time cleaning the cylinders and I've never had any issues using the shorter cases in the .357s.

And I do like 2400, a lot. I'm just trying out some of the other powders I have on hand.

Grumpy

 

[TimSr]

There is a lot of chatter regarding BD and "light for caliber" bullets but other than "it's dirty at lower than max weights" I've only heard what's been posted on the net.

I play with BD alot, and really like it. It has a big flash, and burns very clean when published load leaves no empty case space. I haven't used it in 357, but my HD load is 10gr BD under a 125gr JHP in a 38 spl case, and it shoots nice, tight, and clean from my 6" GP100.

I also went to 7.1 BD for CCW 38 snubby loads under a DEWC, which was my best and cleanest performer, again with the WC deeply seated and no excess empty case space.

Another observation was that I lost about 50fps and it got a little dirtier when I put 7.5gr BD under the DEWC and seated it out to nrrmal SWC depth as compared 7.1 grain under the same 148gr BBWC seated all the way in to the cannelure.

Its my go to 9mm choice.

It looks to me like the issues with light bullets are more due to empty case space than the bullet weight itself. That was why I used a 38 case for my HD load which is somewhere between +p and mag.

On the downside, if you load light, or in large cases with lots of empty space, its one of the dirtiest powders I've used.

 

[Old Grumpy]

One of the hardest reloading steps for me to determine is a "heavy" crimp. Many of these "magnum" level loads say to put a heavy crimp on the bullet. Yeah right!

I've placed a crimp on my loads heavy enough to buckle the case and that seemed counter productive. When a load calls for a "Heavy" crimp I roll the case mouth into the cannelure so it looks similar to a factory crimp. With my .45acp rounds I can measure the crimp at the case mouth, but roll crimps are different.

I've read where a "heavy" crimp will allow for slightly better ignition (less unburned powder) when using the slower magnum powders. Still if it had a number I could check to see if my crimp was "heavy" enough.

Maybe a nice "heavy" crimp will reduce the unburned powder.

Grumpy

 

[joneb]

Maybe a nice "heavy" crimp will reduce the unburned powder.

It helps. I have two seater/ flare plugs one only flares, I turned down the expander portion.
For a heavy roll crimp start with brass that is the same length. For heavy loads I check the last unfired round in the cylinder for bullet jump with calipers.

 

[bluetopper]

New reloaders have to learn that published data is merely a guide, it is not a Bible.

 

[Walkalong]

It's more than a guide, but less than a bible.

 

[Old Grumpy]

I agree with Walkalong, a reloader SHOULD be able to have a reasonable expectation that IF they use the same components and the same measurements (OAL, crimp, etc) their loads SHOULD perform close to published data. But the chances of building a load that EXACTLY duplicates published data is next to impossible.

Grumpy

 

[TimSr]

Still if it had a number I could check to see if my crimp was "heavy" enough.

If you check your last last round in your revolver before you fire it, and the crimp is still in the same place on the bullet, it is heavy enough.

There is a bigger problem from overcrimping enough to change the shape of the bullet, or cutting into it.

 

[Toprudder]

The only powder from the OP that I have tried is AA#7. My experience is that this powder is very sensitive to case position. When I did the powder-forward test, I saw extreme spread of almost 300fps. That was using Starline brass, 158gn SWC Xtreme plated, CCI 500 primers.

 

[moxie]

Agree with Tim in post #38.

The primary purpose of a "heavy" crimp in heavy revolver rounds is to help, along with good case neck tension, prevent "bullet jump." If the last round stays in place then the crimp was heavy enough. Of course it could be too heavy and cut into or otherwise deform the bullet or crumple the case . So rule of thumb is start with a light crimp and test and get tighter until you've got a secure bullet. It's possible that no crimp at all is good enough. Bullet jump is a function of the mass of the gun, seating depth, bullet bearing surface, etc., as well as the load itself.

The issue of the crimp aiding in powder ignition is not especially important, IMO, and is just a secondary purpose for the crimp. Very hard to quantify. There may be side by side with and without test data out there but I've not seen it. Please provide a link if anyone has.

So Grumpy there is no easy number for you. Gotta test for yourself. It can be maddening.

 

[Old Grumpy]

Here is a photo of my test rounds. All rounds are new Starline cases; all use 158gr Speer JHP; the Blue Dot, AA#7, AA#9, and IMR-4227 use Federal SPM primers while the 2400 loads use Winchester SPP. The only other change from the original post is a reduction of 0.2gr on the Blue Dot load.

The different colored case heads help me match the fired cases with the correct powder/charge combination.

As soon as I get some nicer weather I'll head to the range and run half of each lot over the chrono and the other half off the rest at 25-yards.

Grumpy

 

[Walkalong]

a photo of my test rounds

I like it. I mark mine when I do that as well. The time I had some dump out and I couldn't separate them because they all looked alike (Same bullet) broke me from not marking them.

 

[Old Grumpy]

I like it. I mark mine when I do that as well. The time I had some dump out and I couldn't separate them because they all looked alike (Same bullet) broke me from not marking them.

I have had great luck with the Sharpies. The color stays on and doesn't change when the round is fired. Then a little bit of extra time in the tumbler it all comes off.

Grumpy

 

[Stumper]

Regarding Blue dot-I have loaded lots of .357s with 9.8-10gr. under a cast 158swc. It is a nice load....but I personally am done with Blue Dot. In shotguns it loses huge ammounts of velocity in cold weather and it sometimes shows high pressure signs in .357(and other metallics) when temps are very cold. I prefer more consistent performance.

 

[joneb]

The time I had some dump out and I couldn't separate them because they all looked alike (Same bullet) broke me from not marking them.

I tried a Berry's 50rnd ammo case ONCE the damn thing opened up in my range bag. Never again a Berry's ammo box I will buy.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Drail, Do you have any personal experience with BD in the .357? There is a lot of chatter regarding BD and "light for caliber" bullets but other than "it's dirty at lower than max weights" I've only heard what's been posted on the net..

Grumpy

I am not Drail, but have a lot of BD experience. For 15 years I loaded thousands of 125 gr JHP over 14 gr of Blue Dot, which was under the starting charge according to my Speer #11 manual. They sure we're stout. I shot them all out of one Colt King Cobra with no harm. When Alliant ' s unexplainable warning came out, I switched to Power Pistol....That same old gun is still eating a steady diet of 125 gr magnums and is still tight. She's eaten a little over 2k this year....For what it's worth the forcing cone shows no erosion and the cylinder gap is still within spec.

 

[Old Grumpy]

I would love to see the numbers (of ka-booms and damaged weapons) that Alliant is aware of that caused them to put out the warnings. For a simple guy like myself it seems odd that the warning is for 125gr bullets but not for 110gr or 140gr bullets. Why this narrow window?

Before I became aware of the warning I loaded up 100 rounds of 125gr LTCBB over 10.0gr of Blue Dot and ran them over my chrono. Low was 1311fps, high was 1387fps, average 1366.7fps, with an extreme spread of 76fps, and a standard deviation of 30.69fps. According to Lyman's the maximum charge was 10.5gr and a top velocity of 1339fps. So my actual numbers were close to their velocity but with 0.5gr less powder.

Please remember Alliant advises against using this combination (Blue Dot and the 125gr bullet)!

I have 60 rounds left in that box and I'm unsure if I will shoot them (against Alliant's recommendation) or pull them.

Grumpy