reloading help
- Thread starter charleyo
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csbassplayer2003
Member
You aren't going to recieve helpful responses unless you have shown at least the BARE MINIMUM of effort to research this on your own. The internet has plenty of information, start there. Once you read and have SPECIFIC questions, you might get more useful information.
1stmarine
Member
My recommendations is to read the book ABC of reloading and/o Lymans reloading manual. Also watch some of the instructional videos online (youtube) with great information.
Take your time. Do not play with .308win w/o being 100% sure of what you are doing or seek expert advice at the local range. Do not gamble with your rifle, eyes sight or even your life. I have seen several firearms blow up (some at the service) and it is not pretty.
Follow both the bullet manufacturer and powder manufacturer load information. Verify and then verify again like a compulsive person.
Many will tell you is simple and yes it can be simple but you need to be 100% confortable and know the minimun safety features.
308 win is very forgiving, easy to start but one mistake is all it takes.
Start by learning all the measures about those cases that you are going to reload.
You can also start with a LEE breech lock set that will give you everything you need to
do good reloads in a 100 dollar package.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
E.
Take your time. Do not play with .308win w/o being 100% sure of what you are doing or seek expert advice at the local range. Do not gamble with your rifle, eyes sight or even your life. I have seen several firearms blow up (some at the service) and it is not pretty.
Follow both the bullet manufacturer and powder manufacturer load information. Verify and then verify again like a compulsive person.
Many will tell you is simple and yes it can be simple but you need to be 100% confortable and know the minimun safety features.
308 win is very forgiving, easy to start but one mistake is all it takes.
Start by learning all the measures about those cases that you are going to reload.
You can also start with a LEE breech lock set that will give you everything you need to
do good reloads in a 100 dollar package.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
E.
Steve Koski
Member
Agreed. Invest $20 in a reloading manual. Read it cover to cover.
Koski
Koski
LiveLife
Member
charleyo, welcome to THR!
I recently started reloading .223 and .308 cartridges. Although I have been reloading pistol cartridges for many years, I was a newbie to rifle cartridges. It's been a fun and learning experience. Definitely recommend reading up on the rifle cartridge reloading process as there are many steps involved (Natchez has Lyman's 49th Reloading Handbook for $16.79).
What I did for .308 was:
1. Determined the twist rate of my rifle barrel
2. Bought different bullet weights of various factory ammunition (145, 150, 168, 175) as different twist rate of barrel will stablize different bullet weights better (faster twist rate 1:9 - 1:10 is "supposed to" stabilize heavier 175 gr bullet better than slower 1:12 - You'll find many discussions on this issue, but do your own testing using your rifle to verify)
3. Zeroed the scope at 100 yards using the cheapest ammunition
4. Once the scope was zeroed, I obtained 5 round shot groups from each bullet weight group
5. For my 1:12 twist rate, I got the smallest shot groups (1.5") using 150/168 gr bullet weight even with loose scope mounts (I forgot to wrench-tighten the mounting bolts). 175 gr averaged around 2.5"
6. Ordered 1000 once-fired brass and Hornady Match 168 gr BTHP bullets (I will be ordering 150 gr bullets from Berry's website with free shipping next)
7. Assembled my own Lee Classic Turret Press kit
- Classic Turret Press - You can use this press in single stage mode by removing the index rod and I simply rotate the turret to change out dies ... I never have to screw/unscrew and adjust the dies again!
It really is a sturdy press I highly recommend - it resizes even the heavy walled military .308 cases easily and smoothly.
- Lee Deluxe Rifle Dies
- .308 case gauge and cutter ball
- Zip trim
- Case chamfer tool
- Military primer crimp remover
- Primer pocket cleaner tool
- RCBS case lube pad and case lube
- Powder measure (you charge the case straight under the powder measure or you can use a funnel)
I already had the following, but you'll need them:
- Reloading manual (can't stress the importance of this enough)
- Scale (You really need a good beam scale at least like RCBS 5-0-2/5-0-5 or Dillon Eliminator) - I have an Ohaus/RCBS 10-10 scale
- Caliper (dial or digital)
- Hand primer
- Bullet puller
- Loading block
- Ammo box (50 or 100 round)
- Vibratory case tumbler
8. I read a lot to come up with popular powder choices for .308 (H4895, Varget, RL15 - there are other popular ones but I ordered these to cover the faster/medium/slower .308 powder ranges)
9. Ordered powders and primers (CCI BR2) from Powder Valley (I found out later they also stock a wide range of rifle bullets along with pulled bullets from RMRreloading - they have air pulled 147 gr M80 bullets at very good price ($145/1000) and free shipping).
10. I sorted the once-fired brass by weight to separate heavier walled military cases from lighter walled commercial cases (thicker walled military cases have less internal case volume and will generate higher chamber pressure compared to thinner walled commercial cases - I want to keep them separated for consistency and accuracy)
11. Deprimed cases using Universal Decapping die and cleaned primer pockets (de-crimp military primer pockets)
12. Tumbled cases using walnut media and brass polish (NuFinish)
13. Full-length sized cases using case lube
14. Trimmed cases (Zip trim/case gauge/cutter) and chamfered case neck
15. Wiped dried case lube off with paper towel (or you can tumble polish again - but you must clear the primer flash hole of any stuck tumbling media)
16. Hand prime cases
17. Set up cases in the loading block
18. Verified/weighed powder drops from powder measure and began with starting charge for 168 gr bullet from load data
19. Charged 10 cases with powder in increments of 1 gr
20. Seated bullet to OAL
21. Range tested for accuracy (I tightened the scope mount bolts this time)
22. With each firing, your case will get longer and case wall will start to get thinner on the inside of the case wall near the case base. Check for this thinning of case wall, and toss/recycle case as necessary - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE0A5IsR1dA&feature=related
There are many rifle reloading resources online, but I spent a lot of time at The Rifleman's Journal website. It is a benchrest shooter website, but you'll pick up a lot of useful information on reloading accurate rifle loads (start with the Basics and Reloading sections).
I recently started reloading .223 and .308 cartridges. Although I have been reloading pistol cartridges for many years, I was a newbie to rifle cartridges. It's been a fun and learning experience. Definitely recommend reading up on the rifle cartridge reloading process as there are many steps involved (Natchez has Lyman's 49th Reloading Handbook for $16.79).
What I did for .308 was:
1. Determined the twist rate of my rifle barrel
2. Bought different bullet weights of various factory ammunition (145, 150, 168, 175) as different twist rate of barrel will stablize different bullet weights better (faster twist rate 1:9 - 1:10 is "supposed to" stabilize heavier 175 gr bullet better than slower 1:12 - You'll find many discussions on this issue, but do your own testing using your rifle to verify)
3. Zeroed the scope at 100 yards using the cheapest ammunition
4. Once the scope was zeroed, I obtained 5 round shot groups from each bullet weight group
5. For my 1:12 twist rate, I got the smallest shot groups (1.5") using 150/168 gr bullet weight even with loose scope mounts (I forgot to wrench-tighten the mounting bolts). 175 gr averaged around 2.5"
6. Ordered 1000 once-fired brass and Hornady Match 168 gr BTHP bullets (I will be ordering 150 gr bullets from Berry's website with free shipping next)
7. Assembled my own Lee Classic Turret Press kit
- Classic Turret Press - You can use this press in single stage mode by removing the index rod and I simply rotate the turret to change out dies ... I never have to screw/unscrew and adjust the dies again!
It really is a sturdy press I highly recommend - it resizes even the heavy walled military .308 cases easily and smoothly.- Lee Deluxe Rifle Dies
- .308 case gauge and cutter ball
- Zip trim
- Case chamfer tool
- Military primer crimp remover
- Primer pocket cleaner tool
- RCBS case lube pad and case lube
- Powder measure (you charge the case straight under the powder measure or you can use a funnel)
I already had the following, but you'll need them:
- Reloading manual (can't stress the importance of this enough)
- Scale (You really need a good beam scale at least like RCBS 5-0-2/5-0-5 or Dillon Eliminator) - I have an Ohaus/RCBS 10-10 scale
- Caliper (dial or digital)
- Hand primer
- Bullet puller
- Loading block
- Ammo box (50 or 100 round)
- Vibratory case tumbler
8. I read a lot to come up with popular powder choices for .308 (H4895, Varget, RL15 - there are other popular ones but I ordered these to cover the faster/medium/slower .308 powder ranges)
9. Ordered powders and primers (CCI BR2) from Powder Valley (I found out later they also stock a wide range of rifle bullets along with pulled bullets from RMRreloading - they have air pulled 147 gr M80 bullets at very good price ($145/1000) and free shipping).
10. I sorted the once-fired brass by weight to separate heavier walled military cases from lighter walled commercial cases (thicker walled military cases have less internal case volume and will generate higher chamber pressure compared to thinner walled commercial cases - I want to keep them separated for consistency and accuracy)
11. Deprimed cases using Universal Decapping die and cleaned primer pockets (de-crimp military primer pockets)
12. Tumbled cases using walnut media and brass polish (NuFinish)
13. Full-length sized cases using case lube
14. Trimmed cases (Zip trim/case gauge/cutter) and chamfered case neck
15. Wiped dried case lube off with paper towel (or you can tumble polish again - but you must clear the primer flash hole of any stuck tumbling media)
16. Hand prime cases
17. Set up cases in the loading block
18. Verified/weighed powder drops from powder measure and began with starting charge for 168 gr bullet from load data
19. Charged 10 cases with powder in increments of 1 gr
20. Seated bullet to OAL
21. Range tested for accuracy (I tightened the scope mount bolts this time
)22. With each firing, your case will get longer and case wall will start to get thinner on the inside of the case wall near the case base. Check for this thinning of case wall, and toss/recycle case as necessary - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE0A5IsR1dA&feature=related
There are many rifle reloading resources online, but I spent a lot of time at The Rifleman's Journal website. It is a benchrest shooter website, but you'll pick up a lot of useful information on reloading accurate rifle loads (start with the Basics and Reloading sections).
Last edited:
evan price
Member
Well, it's not hard as long as you can follow directions. Not much harder than baking a cake really. Sounds like you want to reload military semi-auto so that's what I'll assume.
First you'll need brass.
-If it's used, you'll want to clean it with a tumbler or ultrasonic and inspect it for damage or immenant case head separation stretching.
-If it is military brass you'll need to punch out the used primers and then swage or chamfer the primer pocket to remove the military crimp. I use a Lee Universal Decapping Die to deprime and a RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Set to swage.
-Lightly lube the cases with the case lube of your choice (I like the Lyman spray lube, you spray it on and wait about ten minutes for the carrier to evaporate) and resize them in a full length sizing die.
-Measure the length of the resized brass using a dial caliper. 7.62x51 has a max length of 2.015" and a trim-to length of 2.005" and you need to measure all of your cases. Anything over 2.015" you need to trim down the case mouths to 2.005" and then chamfer the inside and outside of the necks with a case neck chamfer tool.
-It's a good idea to re-clean the brass after you are done prepping to remove lube and brass chips. Tumble or ultrasonic or even hot soapy water followed by letting it sit in a warm place to dry.
-Once your brass is ready, you need to prime the cases. Military primers by CCI are always a good choice but I like Wolf or Tula also. In a semi-auto, some guns are prone to have the firing pin kiss the primer when you chamber a round. Hard primers are preferred for this reason.
-Put your primed cases in a loading block and add the powder of your choice. Can't go wrong with BL(c)2 for ease of measuring; ball powders are more consistant in powder measures than stick powders like 4895; The old standbys for 7.62 are BL(c)2, 4895, 3031, 4064, Varget, H335, RL22, and lots of others. Choose one that gives you the velocity you want at a price point you can afford and can get more of the powder later. Good loads are available from the Hodgon Reloading Data Center at their web site. Weigh out your powder on an avoirdupois scale to ensure the weight is correct. Charge each case one at a time and look in each case to make sure the powder level is consistent.
-Take each primed, charged case and place your bullet in the case mouth. Adjust your seating die to seat the bullet so the cannelure is just at the case mouth at the end of stroke. You can use a factory round to compare to to make sure yours is similar. According to the US Military Ammunition manual, M-80 Ball should have an overall length of 2.80" max.
And that's about all you need to do.
First you'll need brass.
-If it's used, you'll want to clean it with a tumbler or ultrasonic and inspect it for damage or immenant case head separation stretching.
-If it is military brass you'll need to punch out the used primers and then swage or chamfer the primer pocket to remove the military crimp. I use a Lee Universal Decapping Die to deprime and a RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Set to swage.
-Lightly lube the cases with the case lube of your choice (I like the Lyman spray lube, you spray it on and wait about ten minutes for the carrier to evaporate) and resize them in a full length sizing die.
-Measure the length of the resized brass using a dial caliper. 7.62x51 has a max length of 2.015" and a trim-to length of 2.005" and you need to measure all of your cases. Anything over 2.015" you need to trim down the case mouths to 2.005" and then chamfer the inside and outside of the necks with a case neck chamfer tool.
-It's a good idea to re-clean the brass after you are done prepping to remove lube and brass chips. Tumble or ultrasonic or even hot soapy water followed by letting it sit in a warm place to dry.
-Once your brass is ready, you need to prime the cases. Military primers by CCI are always a good choice but I like Wolf or Tula also. In a semi-auto, some guns are prone to have the firing pin kiss the primer when you chamber a round. Hard primers are preferred for this reason.
-Put your primed cases in a loading block and add the powder of your choice. Can't go wrong with BL(c)2 for ease of measuring; ball powders are more consistant in powder measures than stick powders like 4895; The old standbys for 7.62 are BL(c)2, 4895, 3031, 4064, Varget, H335, RL22, and lots of others. Choose one that gives you the velocity you want at a price point you can afford and can get more of the powder later. Good loads are available from the Hodgon Reloading Data Center at their web site. Weigh out your powder on an avoirdupois scale to ensure the weight is correct. Charge each case one at a time and look in each case to make sure the powder level is consistent.
-Take each primed, charged case and place your bullet in the case mouth. Adjust your seating die to seat the bullet so the cannelure is just at the case mouth at the end of stroke. You can use a factory round to compare to to make sure yours is similar. According to the US Military Ammunition manual, M-80 Ball should have an overall length of 2.80" max.
And that's about all you need to do.
USSR
Member
charleyo,
Assuming you are simply asking for a load that nearly duplicates 7.62x51 Nato ammo, between 42 and 43 grains of IMR4895 in 7.62x51 brass behind the 147gr FMJBT bullets will work nicely for you.
Don
1stmarine
Member
The German military rounds from DAG are great but they are berdan primer
so that wonderful brass you cannot reload.
Just in case you didn't notice.
Cheers,
E.
so that wonderful brass you cannot reload.
Just in case you didn't notice.
Cheers,
E.
ranger335v
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3,797
"reloading help"
First, welcome aboard.
Next, this IS a reloading help forum so your heading has no meaning. Few of us are likely to open such a post to see if we are interested in responding, you will help yourself in the future if you say exactly what help you're seeking.
Now, even fewer of us are likely to attempt a written explaination of reloading. After all, it is a large topic and it's pretty much generic. There's nothing specific to be worried about reloading your cartridge and there are full books available to explain the fundamentals of reloading, along with some nice illustrations that will greatly help it make sense. So, get a manual and read it, then come back with specific questions we can actually deal with intelligently. The books from Hornady, Lyman, Sierra, Lee all have very well written noob directions, good pictures and lots of reloading data. The ABCs of Reloading is a good resource book too but it's NOT a loading manual.
First, welcome aboard.
Next, this IS a reloading help forum so your heading has no meaning. Few of us are likely to open such a post to see if we are interested in responding, you will help yourself in the future if you say exactly what help you're seeking.
Now, even fewer of us are likely to attempt a written explaination of reloading. After all, it is a large topic and it's pretty much generic. There's nothing specific to be worried about reloading your cartridge and there are full books available to explain the fundamentals of reloading, along with some nice illustrations that will greatly help it make sense. So, get a manual and read it, then come back with specific questions we can actually deal with intelligently. The books from Hornady, Lyman, Sierra, Lee all have very well written noob directions, good pictures and lots of reloading data. The ABCs of Reloading is a good resource book too but it's NOT a loading manual.
Last edited:
LiveLife
Member
charleyo, believe me, all of us started like you, new to reloading.
Most here will want to help you avoid the mistakes we all made and that's why they made a strong push with the reloading manuals (because most answers you are looking for will be found in there) but take it that they want you safe, not deflect your questions.
I kinda misunderstood your question, but it was late night and I posted just before I went to sleep. So, sorry for the long "checklist" that got posted.
For the lighter 145/147/150/168 gr bullets, you might want to consider Hodgdon H4895 - I found it to produce very accurate loads. In case you missed it in my checklist, RMRreloading (longdayjake on THR) has air pulled 147 gr M80 bullets for $145/1000 + free shipping (it's just about the lowest price I have found recently and you can buy in quantities of 250).
Most here will want to help you avoid the mistakes we all made and that's why they made a strong push with the reloading manuals (because most answers you are looking for will be found in there) but take it that they want you safe, not deflect your questions.
I kinda misunderstood your question, but it was late night and I posted just before I went to sleep. So, sorry for the long "checklist" that got posted.
For the lighter 145/147/150/168 gr bullets, you might want to consider Hodgdon H4895 - I found it to produce very accurate loads. In case you missed it in my checklist, RMRreloading (longdayjake on THR) has air pulled 147 gr M80 bullets for $145/1000 + free shipping (it's just about the lowest price I have found recently and you can buy in quantities of 250).
Hey thanks guys for all the helpful information, I really appreceate IT!! i have the manuals from hornady and lyman, i love shooting the german ammo and buy iteither two or found rounds at a time, but all ther dealers in my aera cannot get a hold of it now. i was told it is to big of a hasslde to reload so i have been leaving the brass at the range. so i guess i will try reloading the winchester nato 147 and see if it i like it, so please if you have any more inform. for me i appreicate it! i reload now for 223,40 cal. ,357, 270weatherby mag. i have a Dillon rl 550 and sure like it a lot again Thankyouall very much!
1stmarine
Member
Personally I would use the dillon to load single stage.
Or at least do a good preparation in advance and then just finish the loads with the progressive press. If you shoot an autoloader then use the lee factory crimp. Very simple yet very effective not just to avoid the problems with the system pushing the bullets inside but a light crimp is an easy way to achieve consistent starting pressure that shows up in the speed spreads. (consistency).
I can send you some of the info for the FMJs. Today I am going to be reloading some myself.
Cheers.
E.
Or at least do a good preparation in advance and then just finish the loads with the progressive press. If you shoot an autoloader then use the lee factory crimp. Very simple yet very effective not just to avoid the problems with the system pushing the bullets inside but a light crimp is an easy way to achieve consistent starting pressure that shows up in the speed spreads. (consistency).
I can send you some of the info for the FMJs. Today I am going to be reloading some myself.
Cheers.
E.
DANNY-L
Member
I see cheaper than dirt has them,atleast I think they are.
1stmarine
Member
I have an FNAR Too. They love the UMC 150gr fmj loads.
I use Varget that is very consistent in both good weather and very cold weather. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
I don't know the sweet spot for the FNAR but I believe is close to 46gr with the Winchester bullet. Use the table above and start low and work your way up.
SAFETY FIRST!
I use Varget that is very consistent in both good weather and very cold weather. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
I don't know the sweet spot for the FNAR but I believe is close to 46gr with the Winchester bullet. Use the table above and start low and work your way up.
SAFETY FIRST!
1stmarine
Member
No problem. I use mostly H4895 and Varget. Both are very consistent.
Look at the tables. The sweet spot has to be somewhere in between.
Carefully work your way up specially when you approach the hot zone.
Measure the spreads as these also tell the story about the loads.
Cheers.
E.
Look at the tables. The sweet spot has to be somewhere in between.
Carefully work your way up specially when you approach the hot zone.
Measure the spreads as these also tell the story about the loads.
Cheers.
E.
Lost Sheep
Member
"Assume" at your own risk.
csbassplayer2003 obviously read your original post as if you were completely inexperienced, which, from your other posts, I see that you are not. But your post did leave open to some question what your experience level is, and what your goals are.
The more information you give, the better answers you will get, as ranger335v suggests.
Lost Sheep
csbassplayer2003 obviously read your original post as if you were completely inexperienced, which, from your other posts, I see that you are not. But your post did leave open to some question what your experience level is, and what your goals are.
The more information you give, the better answers you will get, as ranger335v suggests.
Lost Sheep
i have some but not alot and iwas told that always look and listern and that i can not get enough experience, no i have not alot just loading a few at a time mainly for hunting a a little for plinking, but now that i got my FNAR i am having so much fun and i am having trouble getting the german ammo and running out of it, so, thats why i have been asking youall all the questions. i am 66 years andthis old dog wants to have fun and learn new tricks. thankyouall again for all the help! charley
bergmen
Member.
Cherokee
Member
charleyo - you have been given some very good responses on process. I load my 7.62x51 147-150 FMJ bullets using H335 and AA2230.
1stmarine
Member
The 150 with the 46gr of Varget produces the same ballistics results. All measured and compared in a ballistics chart. I would start low and then work to mimic the speed and ballistics out of your barrel. Varget is very consistent even in extreme cold. Very consistent just like the NATO round.
1stmarine
Member
I forgot... I also used the H335 like some suggested below and works great too. I find varget is very good in all weather. I think that among other things is that the cases are segregated, sizing is consitent, OAL and specially a light crimp that helps achieve consistent "starting pressure". One aspect I consider very important in consistency in the spreads. I can keep mine with differences in the single digits for many rounds. I use the lee factory crimp, very light though.
I have seen people deforming the bullets by overdoing it. Better to be consistent with the right amount of crimp and it will show in the results.
Cheers.
E.
I have seen people deforming the bullets by overdoing it. Better to be consistent with the right amount of crimp and it will show in the results.
Cheers.
E.
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