Reloading Military 30-06 brass

[shaggy430]

Question- I've read several things saying that you cannot load military 7.62 NATO brass to the same specifications as civilian .308 brass. However, I have read (on THR) that there is no difference between military 30-06 brass and civilian brass as far as case capacity and pressure concerns. Can someone please clarify? I just purchased a lot of used 30-06 brass and there are quite a few military headstamps in the mix.

 

[rcmodel]

GI 30-06 cases are in general, heavier / less capacity then a commercial case.

The way to find out for sure is to size and trim them, then weigh them and compare the weight to your commercial case weight.
If they weigh more, they have less capacity.
If they weigh the same, they are the same.

They for sure will have crimped primer pockets, so you will have to deal with removing the crimp before you can reload them.

But there is no reason you cannot load GI 30-06 or 7.62 NATO brass to the same max pressure as commercial 30-06 or .308 brass, it just may not take quite as much powder to do it.

If you have enough of the same headstamp, just segregate them into one lot and work up a load with them.

If you just have a few, it is probably not worth messing with if you are trying for max loads in commercial brass.

rc

 

[USSR]

However, I have read (on THR) that there is no difference between military 30-06 brass and civilian brass as far as case capacity and pressure concerns. Can someone please clarify? I just purchased a lot of used 30-06 brass and there are quite a few military headstamps in the mix.

I won't say that there is "no" difference between military and commercial .30-06, but the difference is slight and does not warrant the same consideration as 7.62x51 and .308. For instance, LC M72 Match brass and commercial Lapua weigh the same, and I use the same load to reach essentially the same velocity/pressure in both. On the other hand, commercial Federal .30-06 brass weighs about 7 grains more than the military match brass. While almost every brand of .308 brass weighs less than 7.62x51 brass, this is not the case with military and commercial .30-06 brass.

Don

 

[BigBob3006]

Shaggy,

Confusing isn't it? They are both the same cartridge, but there is a difference. Dear old Uncle Sam likes to have his cases fired in something that spits them out very quickly. Such firearms have a tendency to stop working if the cases aren't all the same, or the case head gets ripped off. In order to prevent this from happening they want the cases built heavier than their civilian cousins. If you want to use GI cases in a civilian rifle, go ahead, just be aware of the thicker cases and reduce your starting load at least one grain lower than the suggested book starting load and work your way up. I like to work up in half grain increments. If you do this, keeping your eye open for increasing pressures you should have no problems.

 

[mrbro]

I recently decided to sort my -06 brass. I have 4 different lots of LC and 8 different commercial head stamps. Since I heard that weight made a difference, I started weighing and sorting. With the LC brass I noticed a bi-modal distribution that was consistent across lots. The peaks were at about 190g and 200g. I saw a similar distribution with the commercial brass with most of the brass being nearer 190g. I sorted each lot into a light and heavy sub lot.

I then started measuring the volume of the cases in each lot. All the LC brass volumes were essentially the same and there was no correlation of volume to weight. Sorting the LC brass, in the lots I have, by weight or by head stamp does not mean they are sorted by volume.

Measuring the sorted commercial brass I found the same thing, sorting by weight or head stamp did not sort by volume. There was no reliable relationship. Also, the general rule that commercial brass has a couple grains more capacity than LC brass was not reliable. In general, most of the commercial lots had the same or slightly more capacity.

I have sorted my brass into 3 lots by volume, all the LC, and 2 different commercial lots. Since I'm not loading up for competition or to hunt hummingbirds at a half mile, this is probably good enough for me. YMMV.

 

[fguffey]

This one belongs in the category of 'MYTHS' as in members repeating what they heard on the Internet and have repeated it so many times they believe it.

MBRO, thanks for showing up, it has been lonely over here, I had the opportunity to acquire all or any part of 100,000 + cases in the category of popular loaded cases that were test fired with different types of gages from a member of another forum, to me they had no value EXCEPT for reloading.

I have weighed cases, sorted cases and measured cases, because of what seems monotonous I made a height gage sorter to speed things up, as to difference, the military case can weigh the same as a commercial case and be different, not an easy sale but the case head on military military cases is thinner than the case head thickness on aa R-P commercial case head by .060 thousands, meaning the case head thickness on the military 30/06 is .200 (+ or_), The R-P case head thickness is .260, deductive reasoning says if the case head is thinner but weight more the case body is thinner, That leaves the military case with a thin case head and a thick case body. that may not seem like much but it does effect the powder column. The military case will have a long powder column that is small in diameter. The commercial case with the thick case head will have a short columns of powder that is large in diameter when compared to the military case, then it is to be decided if that makes a difference, mu opinion 'yes'.

The 308 W is a short case when compared to the 30/06, the powder column of the 308 is shorter with a larger diameter than the 30/06, the 30/06 powder column is longer in length but smaller than the column, of powder in the 308 W, conclusion/ Deductive reasoning? the 308 keeps up with the 30/06 when using 150 grain bullets, so the advantage goes to the short column with the large diameter.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

forgive, the powder column of the 30/06 is longer in length but smaller in diameter when compared to the powder column of the 308 W.



F. Guffey

 

[ranger335v]

Mrbro is correct, the volume difference between GI .30-06 and common cases is less than conventional 'web wisdom' presumes and it varies with both so sometimes there is no difference at all.

Load .308 and .30-06 to equal pressures and there will be a worthwhile difference.

 

[Slamfire]

Case weights in 30-06 are all over the place.

I weight sorted a couple of thousand WWII brass, all different US arsenals. the extreme spread between case weights were at least 30 grains, maybe 35. I had cases over 200 grains, some in the 165 region.

If you are loading maximum loads, case weight makes a difference. Put your maximum load in a case with less internal capacity and you will be blowing primers.

Since my 30-06 targets loads all have to fit within my Garands, and Garand loads are mid range pressure, I don't worry about case weight. I can shoot a 168 with 47.0 grains IMR 4895 without the slightest pressure, regardless of case weight.

 

[soloban]

+ I reload for my M1 Garand and I use a mix of Win, R-P, and LC brass. I load them the same regardless of headstamp. 168 GR SMK over 49 GR IMR 4895

 

[amlevin]

Easy answer. Weigh both civilian and military cases, first empty, and then filled with water. The differences in "net weight" will tell you the differences in capacity.

Most internal ballistics programs will ask for this capacity (# grains of water the case will hold) to calculate recommended charges.

For 30-06 use the Powley Computer available herePowley Computer

For load comparisons.

I've found it to be real accurate for me, using IMR 4064 powder.

 

[medalguy]

amlevin is spot-on. The only way to get an ACCURATE measure of case capacity is with water weight. Sheer case weight does not work.

I load all brass, military and commercial, to the same powder charge. But it's a midrange charge, so a slight difference in powder volume and pressure is not significant.

 

[USSR]

Okay, I'll be the skunk at the party. I did a test involving both 7.62x51 and .308 brass, and I found a direct correlation between case weight and case capacity.

Don