Reloading really cheaper?

[Chicken-Farmer]

I used to reload 45 ACP with one of those all in one hand loaders from Lee, back when i was in High School. Talk about a tedious process to save some money! I also load my own 12 guage shells with a Mec JR press. My question: Is reloading really cheaper than buying bulk ammo?
I ask this question because i recently purchased two Sig 232 pistols in .380, one for me one for my wife. I can purchase 1,000 PMC rounds shipped to my door for $142. For just the cost of 1000 once used pieces of brass i'm looking at $33 + shipping. Then i would have to buy a press, bullets, powder, primers. I'm looking at way more than $142 in set up fees alone. Is reloading as economical now days as it was back in the day? I'm not interested in messing around with custom loads or wild cat cartridges. I just want decent practice ammo for plinking at the range.
What is the quality of the Lee pro 1000. This kit comes caliber specific out of the box for .380 and also can use other dies. All for $129 for a progressive press. The ad claims that all i have to do is place a bullet onto the primed and charged brass, the loader primes, charges all by itself.
Trying to weigh the pros and cons of starting back into reloading. Is it worth it?

Jeff Mays

 

[Standing Wolf]

I've never tallied up costs and expenses, but my hunch is that by the time one buys all the equipment and accessort gadgets and components, the cost of hand loads is at best a very little lower than that of factory ammunition purchased in bulk, especially in the more popular calibers.

Considering what I charge clients for my time, my hand loads are horrendously more expensive than factory fodder. I load my own because a.) I enjoy it; b.) I've developed and am still developing accurate loads for individual guns, and c.) I've always been partial to tools and gadgets.

 

[E357]

If that case of ammo is going to last you for 6 months then you better off just buying the stuff.

Elliot

 

[happy old sailor]

9mm and down, i buy factory on sale. 9mm is way to cheap to reload for.
buy it by the case, darn near shoot it by the case.

25, 32, 380, i just dont shoot enough to bother reloading.

38, 357, 41, 44, and 45 is another story. i shoot lots of this and it Does pay to reload.

but, this just my way of doing things. enjoy reloading too.

check the archives on tips/tricks/troubles with the Lee 1000. primers seem to be the main bitch. there are solutions.

 

[Shooter973]

Reloading cheaper?

I must shoot a lot more than you do. Reloading is the only way I can afford to shoot!. If I had to buy the ammo that I roll at home I would be in the poor house. I can reload a box of 45acp or 357 mag with my own cast slugs, for about $1.50 per box if I don't count my time for anything. I'm retired so I have the time. In my area 44 mag cost about $21.00 per box and using the very best jacketed slugs available (XTP's) my cost is only about $7.00 per box. So the cost of the reloading equipment is repaid rather quickly and then you really start to save. Of course I just shoot that much more so No Savings!!!

 

[dakotasin]

if you are not interested in extracting the absolute best that you and your gun can do, then buy factory ammo.

handloading, to me, is not about cost. it is about performance. my handloads get more velocity (this is a side effect) and far more accuracy (my primary reason to handload) than anything the factory puts out.

if you just want to plink, then buy factory.

 

[243_shooter]

I don't know about saving money, pretty sure I'm spending more now then I ever have..

Of course I'm shooting about 30x's more than ever also! Especially centerfire rifle..

Everything I shoot, I reload, including 9mm. Probably not saving a lot of money reloading for 9, but I find it to be a heck of a lot of fun.

When I started out earlier this year, my goal was to shoot more for less. The more reloading I do, I find that I enjoy it almost as much as shooting.

It's gotten so bad that I'm delaying a gun purchase so I can buy some goodies (chrono, bullet casting equipment, etc..) so that I can more accurately work up loads, and do some stats.. (and I HATE math).

If you do decide to get started, be carefull, as it's quite addictive.

Leo

 

[HSMITH]

I spend a freakin fortune (for me) on reloading. I am set up to load 12 calibers and 2 gauges that I can think of right off the top of my head, and have probably close to $2000 in hardware for reloading when you count up everything.

It is all about cost for me. As a side benefit I get better ammo for what I want to do with my guns than factory ammo. I shoot a LOT more than I could if I did not reload.

Most of us can afford the equipment easily and in a short period of time if we were just to stop smoking/chewing/drinking/chasing women etc. OK so maybe just cut it back by 2/3rds

Once you get started adding calibers is pretty cheap, so you can shoot those guns more too.

I know one guy that loads on the Pro 1000, his ammo is CRAP, it scares me to shoot it. I don' t know how much of it is him and how much is the press, but I do not ever have any consistency troubles with my Dillon. My vote is to spend a little more and get a LOT better equipment if you plan to load a couple thousand per year. Lower quantities may make the Lee progressives more appealing. I am not knocking Lee as a whole, I use a lot of Lee products that work GREAT but I find their lower priced progressive presses to be unsatisfactory.

 

[Steve Smith]

Jeff, one thing to consider is that along with the price of reloading equipment, factory ammo has gone up in price as well.

As another member said, if a case lasts you 6 months, it probably won't be worth it. I think most of us have found that we don't "save money" but we do shoot about three to five times more for the same expediture.

My personal experience with the Lee progressive products was far from positive. If you want to tinker a lot, you can probably get it to work alright.

One thing that strikes me about reloading is how important it becomes to you. Shooting on its own is not cyclic, but when you create the load and cartridge, fire the round, pick up the brass and start over, you're now part of a circular process. Its much more fulfilling this way.

 

[Mikul]

I reload 9mm for $59.13 per thousand. The cheapest factory ammunition I will shoot is $99 per thousand. Over the course of a year, I save $589. I don't know how people can say that reloading 9mm isn't worth it.

Of course, that isn't a HUGE savings: 6 cents per round vs. 10 cents, but that's 9mm.

Let's examine the .44 magnum. Cheap and somewhat wimpy factory ammunition is $248/1,000. I can reload it for $133. That's 25 cents per round vs 12 cents per round. I shoot about 1/3 of this as I do the 9mm, but I still save $735 per year.

.308 is NOT worth it as far as price goes. I can buy 1000 rounds for $140, but it costs $165 to reload, but my reloads will shoot groups 1/2 the size of the cheap surplus ammo. To buy ammo that shoots that well will cost me $300 per 1000.

 

[John Ross]

Comment regarding cost savings, time value, etc.:

Rifle ammo is where reloading has the greatest savings, but it seems everyone here is talking about reloading handgun ammo, so we'll use my favorite, the .44 Mag., and go all out, with the most expensive setup possible.

FIXED COSTS

Star Universal w/ Hulme case insert and Dillon electric casefeed bowl, or Dillon 1050 $1500
Pair H&G 8-cavity molds $1000
RCBS ProMelt and two Saeco 20-lb. ladle pots $500
Star luber $200
Misc other stuff $250
Total $3450

Variable costs per 1000 rounds, everything bought in bulk

40 lbs wheelweights $8
1000 primers $15
4 lbs powder $40
1000 cases based on 10 reloadings per case, 1/10 of $110 = $11
Lube $1
Total $75 per 1000

Cost of Federal factory .44 Mag from ammoman $369

Savings $294 per thousand. Fixed costs of $3450 will be offset in 12,000 rounds.

Given that I have fired well over 100,000 rounds of .44 Mag so far, my equipment investment seems justified.

TIME

Time to cast, size, & lube 1000 bullets 2 hours

Time to load 1000 rounds on a Star 1 1/2 hours

$294 savings/3.5 hours work = $84/hr for your time. Shooting 10,000 rounds of .44 a year (200/week) means you are spending 3 hours a month creating ammo. I don't find this burdensome, no matter how active my social life.

Other benefits--Your cast bullets will shoot more accurately than Federal jacketed and be easier on your gun esp. forcing cone. Also more velocity/energy than jacketed at the same pressure level.

JR

P.S. I would NEVER reload for a semiato. bending over to pick up brass rates as one of my least favorite activities. For 9mm, .380, etc. buy it in bulk and save your back.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

This weekend I loaded 500 rds 9mm using Remington 147gr Golden Saber JHP bullets. This is both my training ammo and my battle carry ammo. The only differences between training and battle ammo is I reload spent brass for training and handload new, unfired Remington +P brass for battle ammo. I handload these cartridges, using 5.5gr VV 3n37, to duplicate the velocity of Remington 9mm 147gr GSHP factory loaded ammunition as chronographed from my Glock 19.

The cost to purchase 500 rds Remington factory loaded ammo? The best price I've seen lately is approximately $15.00/box 25 cartridges. Therefore I reloaded $300.00 worth of ammunition for about $75.00 in components (primers, propellant & bullets). This permits me to train with the same ammo I fight with. Hence I KNOW where my bullets will hit everytime, as opposed to going to WallyWorld and buying 500 rds of Winchester Value Pack 115gr FMJ for training.

The time to load this ammo was about 3-4 hours at a leisurely pace, listening to my favorite rock station on the radio, using an RCBS Pro2000 progressive press. Since I'm not getting paid for my time, and I regard handloading as a hobby, I'm quite happy with my results, and my equipment has quickly paid for itself.

 

[shooterIII]

To me reloading is not a matter of cost, although the amount of shooting I do it is cheaper. To me reloading is FUN, and also since each gun has its own personality, it will usually result in better accuracy and in some cases much better accuracy. Working up a new load for a gun or working up a load for a new gun is also a reason to shoot more.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

Depends on what you're loading.

For something like .45ACP/230 grain/FMJ or 9mm/115/FMJ, likely not gonna save much after factoring in equipment cost.

For something like .32ACP/JHP or .380/JHP or 7.62x25 or 9mm/147JHP or .45ACP/200/JHP, definitely yes. As in, the first 50-100 rounds pay for the dies - and I'm usually spreading out the cost of primers and powder amongst 3 or more calibers so I don't have exact $$ figures for those, but the more I load, the more I save.

My practice ammo and HD/BU/SHTF ammo are the same - I see no sense having 1000 rounds of "practice" ammo and 20 rounds of GoldenHydraDotstoppers for each caliber I have.

 

[Zak Smith]

Yeah, it sure is.

Here's how I figure, for .45ACP for example:

Fixed costs: Dillon Square-Deal B $300 shipped, set up.

Per-round costs:
once-fired cases ($40/thou normally), assume case life of 20 loads (you'll lose 'em first): $2/thou,
$15/thou primers,
$72/thou West Coast plated 200gr,
$10.9/thou powder (5.1gr Titegroup is my IPSC "major" load),

For a cost of $99.9/thousand loaded .45ACP. I can bring it down to about $70/thousand if I buy bullets in lots of 7000 or more from West Coast.

As comparison, this is about $50 less than the "Silver Bear" brand from AmmunitionStore.Com (not counting shipping), and about $80 cheaper per case (not including shipping) than S&B FMJ. So I figured I break even after about 3500 rounds, and then save at least $80/case after that. Obviously the numbers are better if you use the "bulk" rates for bullets from West Coast, and way better if you use hard-case lead.

 

[caz223]

If you can shoot fmj fodder, the caliber you're using is pretty common, and you can make a case of ammo last more than a few months, you may not save any money, or develop a load that is superior to factory.

On the other hand, if (For instance) your range requires the use of hollow points, or you reload for something like .41 magnum, or shoot a lot (Like 100+ rounds a day), you prolly a candidate for a nice dillon press.

Another side benefit is if one of your favorite guns hasn't found a factory load that it likes....or likes really expensive stuff....

 

[MoNsTeR]

I don't save money, I just shoot more. I have more fun too!

 

[happy old sailor]

one thing we forgot to add on price of factory ammo. sales tax. thats about 8% around here. gas prices and those trips to the gunstore to get some more ammo. wear and tear on the vehicle.

yep, reloading saves money. more reasons to keep doin' it.

 

[jsalcedo]

Only if I use cast bullets which so far have worked fine.

With rifle ammunition even buying nice copper jacketed projectiles saves at least 50% over walmart

 

[t driver]

It looks like most of your questions have been addressed. I just wanted to add that I have two Pro 1000 loaders and have been happy with them. Yes, they are quirky to set up. I have found that they work well if a little attention is paid to them, and they don't let you easily make mistakes once set up. There is an excellent post on the Pro 1000 here

 

[larry408]

I also have 2 Lee Pro 1000 presses. Both of mine are reconditioned presses. Mine are in 45acp and 9mm. I was going to change the 45acp over to 9mm when I wanted to load the 9mm. I ended up buying another reconditioned complete Pro 1000 press for only about $20.00 more the parts need to change over to 9mm. You can get the reconditioned Pro 1000 in the calibur of your choice for $84.00 shipped. Go to
http://www.leeprecision.com/ then go to the bottom of the page and click on surplus.

 

[Selfdfenz]

Considering the price of commercial 45 Colt cowboys loads you can pay for your equip and so forth in a very short time indeed.
And that is just one example.
S-

 

[MrPhil]

Reloading costs me ALOT of money!

If I had to buy 44 mag or 44 special ammo, I would never have bought a very nice, used S&W 629 Classic.
Factory loads for these cost $18/box, minimum. My loads cost $7.15/box for 44 Mag and $5.70/box for 44 Special.
So, reloading can be very expensive, indeed.
But seriously, I do save money. I'm shooting a little more each time, but can still get out only once or twice a week. Reloading allows me to spend "quality time" with a hobby I truly enjoy. My learning curve is still very steep; I've been reloading for 6 months. So far its limited to pistol and revolver calibers: 9mm, 38 spl & 357 mag, 44 spl & 44 mag, and 45 acp. I shoot 1000 to 1500 rounds per month. A friend with 8 presses (no joke) has lent me a Dillon Square Deal and an RCBS Rockchucker. So, I've gotten away pretty cheap so far. I think I'll be investing in a 650 before too long.

 

[benewton]

I cast most of my pistol reloads, and, while I discard the brass after 10 rounds or reloads, and I do practice loads 100 FPS or so below published max, I figure that the cost of a reloaded center fire pistol round is roughly that of a .22 LR.


'course, I've not bought factory ammo since the last new caliber, so I'm not up with the current cost/round

A couple of unmentioned issues spring to mind.

There are ammo tax possibilities, usually in CA. You can stock power and primers, and, if you cast your own, you're fairly safe from the "let's regulate the ammo" types. After all, $1000 will buy a lot of powder and primers, should the need occur, but a lot less assembled ammo, and the anti's aren't usually smart enough to know that reloading occurs, much less the details.

And then there's the ideas of doing it yourself, and a bit of independence...


Still, for new calibers, buy the hopefully cheap factory stuff: after all, the brass has to come from somewhere, and, if you're like me, you can't bring a new weapon in house and not fire it, after inspection and cleaning, of course, ASAP!