Reloading With Black Powder?

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FuzzyBunny

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Lets say the worlds in bad shape. Terrorists have taken over/ destroyed/ stolen all the smokeless powder. This is just a what if.

We have primers bullets and cases/hulls. If there a a chart somewhere that will give the smokeless to black powder conversion chart?

Can black powder be used in place of smokeless powder? My simple thoughts tell me sure there is because we had 47/70 and tons of other loaded rounds with blackpowder on the market before smokeless was ever around.

Am I nuts (could be) but there should be an old conversion chart around somewhere.

Other than a powder swap what would have to be done for auto pistol and semiauto rifle to make the powder swap work.

I would assume it would be dirtiter and need more often rapid cleaning to keeping functional.

Comments? Suggestion? Go back to my world of "what if". Just pondering the sudden lack of smokeless. Also please do not suggest getting a black powder rifle as there are millions of newer model guns out there than black powder.



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I've shot my Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk with black powder before. That thin barrel got real hot after 50 rounds worth.


The big challenge with using black powder in a modern-designed cartridge is case capacity. Those older cartridges had what we now consider massive case capacity because much more black powder was needed to achieve the velocity we can get with smokeless. This is why you'll see filler wads offered for reduced smokeless powder loads in old black powder cartridges.
 
I wouldn't try an selfshucker rifle with blackpowder, it'ld raise cane with the gas ports. I do know that several folks reload 45 acp and run thru their 1911's.
Biggest thing is to keep the base of the bullet in firm contact with the powder.
I go thru a case or two of black powder every year, but that's mostly thru single shots ,revolvers and lever guns.
 
With the greatest of respect, you need to do a great deal more research into black powder cartridge shooting.

First, it will not be possible to run semi autos on black powder. Aside from entirely different pressures, powder fouling will end cycling and feeding within a few rounds. Black powder fouling is such that military rifles used purposely under bore bullets to avoid their failure to seat after several shots. Black powder cartridge shooters use heavy lubing, blow tubes, and patching between every shot when possible.

Black powder requires compression and no air space when loaded in cartridges. There is no conversion chart smokeless -to- black powder. Black powder requires different loading tools and techniques or boom will ensue.

Under your scenario above, Glocks and ARs will be useless. The SAA revolver and the big bore lever gun will rule the land again :)

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There is no "equivalency" chart or formula. Few modern cases will hold enough black to equal smokeless ballistics. Large cases were required for the original cartridges to hold enough powder to produce the desired velocities. Smokeless loads in black powder cases leave a lot of empty space. Smokeless powder produces way more pressure per unit of volume (or weight) than black. For instance, a 3 dram load of black (about 84 grains) gives the same velocity as 18 grains of Red Dot behind the standard 1 1/8 ounce trap load.
 
I agree with RPRNY, big bores would rule.

Burning 'black powder' is nasty, smoky, corrosive carbon making. Ain't it fun :)

The carbon/gunk is about the same size in a 22 cal barrel as a 45 cal barrel. Guess which one will get gumed up to the point of not working first? And this is not touching the problems of pressure/power curves. A manually cycled action with a larger bore is inherently better for black powder use.

Other problems to deal with include compress the 'BP' or expect major disappointments, boom! Fewer rounds fired before fowling is just too much.

The winning chamberings remain 45-70, all of the Sharps, .45 Colt and the like. The old US cartridge designations give a very good idea as to what works, 32-20 (32 cal with 20 grains BP), 45-70 (45 cal, 70 grains BP) and the list goes on.

I prefer to burn my black powder in repo unCivil War type weapons.

It's all part of a great hobby.
 
I think I used 40 grains of black powder over a 255 lead bullet in that 45 Colt range trip. It's been a few years, but that sounds about right. For comparison, 8 grains of Unique will get me around the same velocity those holy black loads were going.

There's not enough space in modern pistol cartridges to hold the BP needed to make the gun work. The 45 ACP can be made to function using the black. I can't see anything smaller being nothing but an exercise in frustration.


I have a modern Contender 32/20 carbine. Using smokeless magnum pistol powder I get pressures and velocity that would destroy old guns. That's a great little gun/cartridge combination, btw. The brass is easily crushed with sloppy reloading techniques. But it's a great little varmint gun for short fields.


The industry has moved so far beyond black powder it's about impossible to take what we have today and regress back to it. To have any success you'd need to take the same cartridges or those that were direct descendants once removed to work with. And even then, you're going to hit a performance ceiling that black powder - by its nature - won't let you go beyond.
 
It might be possible to rig an AK-47 for black powder. It would involve compressed loads and a modified gas port. Or just make it into a straight-pull.

Terrorists have taken over/ destroyed/ stolen all the smokeless powder.
Click to expand...

This isn't too far from what's happened around here. Only it isn't terrorists, it's hoarders. I've started using the .50-70 more.
 
You could do a lot of good with a shotgun, though. Any pump or break-action (or bolt) shotgun would work fine with black powder shotshells. Orrr...

Take Ed Hubel's work (12 ga. Rifle From Hell) in a slightly different direction and make big slug loads!

I believe the black powder is a bit hard on plastic hulls, but the work fine once or twice.
 
Goex has a chart on their website that will give you data on loading traditional cartridges, 45 colt, 45/70, etc.. Black powder needs to be compressed. It's a fine line between a handgun and a hand grenade.
 
Blackpowder doesn't need to be compressed. Matter of fact some powders won't shoot worth spit if they get compressed . Other's might not start to work good until it's been mashed 1/2 inch or more into the case..
The old Schuetzen shooters when muzzleloading or even breech seating often set the bullet about 1/8 inch above the case mouth.
 
Thank you for all the posts!
I have a 45/70 and some other older cals that have come into my possession. Most in Winchester lever models. Some have new boxes of ammo that the past owner said were very expensive.

I just got to looking at the mess here and wondered if in a pinch what could I load with black powder if I had to. Other than the big bores that is.

BTW I think the new loads he had made are loaded with smokeless but I do have a can of 3F. yeah I was told 3F is too amll a grain to use other than a flashpan.
 
Calibers such as 38, 44, 45 etc all started as black powder and should be fine with modern single or double action guns as well as rifles (bolt/lever). Now I'm not sure how long an auto feeder will function as stated by others black powder is dirty. Just a note though, even some modern SAA replicas will lock up tight after a few black powder rounds if the cylinder/barrel gap is too close (less than .004" with mine set to .006").
 
I've shot it in 45 colt revolver, actually liked it allot. clean up was a pain, wouldn't want to do that with the lever action, just my 2 cents. seems to me like cleaning the lever action after that would be a nightmare.
 
Cleaning up a 6 gun is a bit more trouble, but cleaning a rifle is as simple as blowing a few breaths down the barrel, then running a dry patch on a jag. Followed by a couple or 3 with nothing more than damp with plain water. A final dry and unless there's signs of leading all that needs done is use that last dry patch soaked with some oil to oil the bore.
 
I use pistol powder in all of my 50 cal rifles. 80 of my powder measure it shoots very good and keeps a good grope at 100 yards. My ML are all scoped. I have a Savage ML that shoots H4227 that is a very accurate gun at 100 yards.
 
Actually guys cleaning up after BP isn't that hard just don't use your usual petro based products. All it takes is a mild soap and water, dry completely then lube with oil well. Even better yet get Ballistol and follow the directions. Other wise get ready to see rust in a few days.
 
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