My .44 mag ammo is less than 1.6" after I set the bullet down to the crimp grove. It's running 1.585 , is this enough to be a problem with a starting load? If so what is the best solution, crimp outside the groove? Im using once fired winchester brass and speer 240 gr. JHP, 8gr. of universal ( starting load) and CCI large pistol primers. I am brand new to reloading In case you can't tell. I have about 5 manuals and still can't figure it all out. Thanks in advance.
Reloads coming up short
- Thread starter rking
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Cerberus62
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No prblem
SAAMI spec overall length (OAL) for the 44 magnum is 1.585". A jacketed handgun bullet and most commercially cast bullets would have a crimp groove located to give you that length. The Speer 240gr bullet you are using will give you 1.585 when seated normally. I see the 1.6" mentioned often and some bullets will even push 1.7" OAL when crimped in the groove provided., but these numbers are usually listed as a "do not exceed" dimension out of consideration for the cylinder length of many revolvers.
Don't crimp jacketed bullets off the groove unless you are seating them deep for some reason and crimp over the ogive. this is sometimes necessary to get a long bullet to clear a short cylinder, but it is very uncommon. If you try to crimp on the shank of the bullet, you will often have the bullet want to jump the crimp and pull out of the case due to recoil, and that can tie up you cylinder.
It sounds like you are OK. Have fun!
SAAMI spec overall length (OAL) for the 44 magnum is 1.585". A jacketed handgun bullet and most commercially cast bullets would have a crimp groove located to give you that length. The Speer 240gr bullet you are using will give you 1.585 when seated normally. I see the 1.6" mentioned often and some bullets will even push 1.7" OAL when crimped in the groove provided., but these numbers are usually listed as a "do not exceed" dimension out of consideration for the cylinder length of many revolvers.
Don't crimp jacketed bullets off the groove unless you are seating them deep for some reason and crimp over the ogive. this is sometimes necessary to get a long bullet to clear a short cylinder, but it is very uncommon. If you try to crimp on the shank of the bullet, you will often have the bullet want to jump the crimp and pull out of the case due to recoil, and that can tie up you cylinder.
It sounds like you are OK. Have fun!
That load will work fine. The min oal applies to the max load (1.600 with 10.2 grs universal) I always use the crimp groove on a jacketed bullet. Glad to see ya starting at min loads, too many people jump up to the max for starting loads. Usually accuracy is better near the starting data. Load safe!
Sharps Shooter
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It doesn't sound as if you have a problem as far as OAL is concerned. But why are you concerned about your 44 Mag loads being less than 1.6"? The Speer Manual I have in front of me shows an OAL of 1.575" for the 44 Mag when using Speer 240 grain JHPs. Seating bullets too deep can indeed cause high pressures, but as far as I can tell from your question, your bullets are actually seated just a bit shallow.
The only thing I would be a little concerned about is that you wrote you are using 8.0 grains of Universal behind Speer 240 grain JHPs. According to my manual, that's somewhat light even for a starting load. I don't think it's light enough to cause you any great problems, such as a bullet stuck in your barrel, but you might find your loads are kind of dirty. Then again, I've never used Universal powder, so I don't know for sure. But a lot of powders burn cleaner if you don't drop below suggested loads. Besides, if you don't have enough pressure to swell your cases you'll get a lot of burn marks back down their sides. They have to swell enough to seal the chambers thus directing the burning gases forward, down the barrel.
The only thing I would be a little concerned about is that you wrote you are using 8.0 grains of Universal behind Speer 240 grain JHPs. According to my manual, that's somewhat light even for a starting load. I don't think it's light enough to cause you any great problems, such as a bullet stuck in your barrel, but you might find your loads are kind of dirty. Then again, I've never used Universal powder, so I don't know for sure. But a lot of powders burn cleaner if you don't drop below suggested loads. Besides, if you don't have enough pressure to swell your cases you'll get a lot of burn marks back down their sides. They have to swell enough to seal the chambers thus directing the burning gases forward, down the barrel.
That's my problem I was not using data specificaly for speer. I cross referenced two other 240 gr. JHP bullets and was working off of that data. For some reason I thought that would work. I will order a speer manual tomorrow and something to take my mistakes apart with. Thanks
Sharps Shooter
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I just don't think you have that big of a problem rking. I would shoot a few of those loads and see how they work before going to the trouble of pulling them apart.
You did just right by referencing load data from 2 different sources when you didn't have a manual for the brand of bullet you were using. Once you've been into reloading for a spell, you'll find yourself referencing several different sources because either nobody writes a manual for the specific bullet you're trying to use or the type of powder you're trying to use isn't listed in the bullet manufacturer's loading manual.
You did just right by referencing load data from 2 different sources when you didn't have a manual for the brand of bullet you were using. Once you've been into reloading for a spell, you'll find yourself referencing several different sources because either nobody writes a manual for the specific bullet you're trying to use or the type of powder you're trying to use isn't listed in the bullet manufacturer's loading manual.
For the first 20 years in this reloading hobby I didn't own a caliper or micrometer. I set my OAL's using a factory round, by the canalure or crimping groove. I checked the rounds to see if they fed in my semi autos or would fit in my shortest cylinder revolver (usually a Colt) and life was good. The ammo went bang and holes appeared reasonably close to where I aimed at least as good as factory ammo.
Then we got the computers and bulletin boards followed by the internet and I started seeing all these posts yammering about "OAL this" and "OAL that" so I thought maybe there's something to this OAL stuff. By now you could get dial calipers pretty inexpensively so I bought one. Wasted a bunch of time measuring stuff though I can say it did help in setting seating depths for semi auto ammo that I didn't have a factory sample left to use. If you think a few thousandth's OAL is important, get a box of factory fress ammo and measure away. It will open your eyes.
For the most part the dire warnings of "shorter OAL than listed can cause sevear pressure problems" is so much flatulence. In small capacity cases like the 9mm a small change in OAL will have a much more significant issue with pressure than any larger case so if your loading 9mm or .380 then watch your OAL a little closer but if your loading .357 or .44 mag then the issue is; if it fits in the chamber of your revolver. The whole point of using a start load is to keep the load safe. A couple thousandth's or hundredth’s isn't going to give you any problems and if it does it won't be a catastrophic disaster. There is just a very slight possibility that you could see beginnings of pressure signs like flattened primers or sticky cases but not very likely.
Fire away.
only1asterisk
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rking,
In your particular case the difference in pressure isn't going to amount to much. Your load will be fine at 1.585". .015" decrease in OAL WILL produce large pressures changes in many instances. It isn't flatulence, it's safety. .015" is enough to cause a 15% increase in chamber pressure in many 40 S&W loads. If your .40 is a Glock, that's more than enough to ruin your day.
Stay safe, stick close to published loads for awhile and if you are more than about .005 under the min. OAL check with somebody before you load a bunch up.
David
In your particular case the difference in pressure isn't going to amount to much. Your load will be fine at 1.585". .015" decrease in OAL WILL produce large pressures changes in many instances. It isn't flatulence, it's safety. .015" is enough to cause a 15% increase in chamber pressure in many 40 S&W loads. If your .40 is a Glock, that's more than enough to ruin your day.
Stay safe, stick close to published loads for awhile and if you are more than about .005 under the min. OAL check with somebody before you load a bunch up.
David
The Speer Manual 13 gives a starting load of 8.8 grs of Universal with their 240gr JHP with an overall length of 1.575. I use 7.6 to 8.5 grs of Universal for lighter cast 240 gr bullet loads in the .44 mag(data from Hodgdon) but think I'd stick with Speer's recommendations for their 240 gr JHP and crimp in the crimp groove.
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