Reloads failing to cycle Beretta

[BUGUDY]

Here is what I have
Beretta 92fs
win brass
125 LRN 9mm
4.4grs Bullseye powder
Rem #5.5 sm pistol primers
COL 1.154
The rounds chambered fine, but would not cycle after firing. The cases look fine, sooty, but I think that is the Bullseye powder.
I think the 4.4gr of powder is not getting enough pressure to cycle the rounds, but before I add more powder I am going to look for some advise.

 

[RVenick]

Are you at the starting load? If so that is more than likely the problem. I ran into the same problem with my M&P 40 using W231 powder. The starting load was 4.2 wouldn't cycle. I bumped it up to 4.6 it cycled but ejection of brass was like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride had no idea which direction the brass would go. Went up to 4.9 gun cycles perfectly brass ejects to the right like it is supposed to do. FYI the max load with the FMJ I am using is 5.1. Autoloaders need a little more umph to eject the shell.

 

[BUGUDY]

Well, that is the starting load off the Alliant powder web page.

 

[paperpuncher49]

For a 125 grain lead bullet in the 9mm, Alliant lists 4.9 as the max load for bullseye. Hopefully, you didn't load a bunch of rounds at 4.4 grains. Load a few at 4.5, then try 4.6, etc until it cycles. I suggest finding a load that will cycle the action but not beat the frame to death. Also, if it is a new firearm, it may take some breaking in and start to function with a load that earlier on would not cycle properly.

 

[ninja45]

Get the minimum and the maximum load and average them out. Start there and slowly raise it by .1 gr (but not to exceed the max) until you find the perfect load for your pistol.

 

[BUGUDY]

I only loaded 6. I also ran some Brown Bear 115 FMJ thru it after the handloads. They were fine.

 

[rfwobbly]

Bug Guy -
Usually when you're in the correct burn range, the inside of the case will start to turn tan, gray, or white. Generally, you can read the case insides like you read a spark plug tip. The black sooty color is telling me you're well under optimum. (Or your gun has the choke turned ON !)

Start in 0.1gr increments at 4.6gr. Load 10 of 4.6, 10 of 4.7, etc. You'll find a sweet spot.

 

[possum]

i agree bump the load up a little at a time, i make my reloads to where they have just enough force to work the action but that is about it.

 

[Steve C]

When you say "fail to cycle" is the action opening and just not ejecting, is the action locking up and not opening, or is the case being partially ejected and then jamming in the action?

I don't think your problem is too light a load. 4.4grs of Bullseye is the maximum load fro 125gr bullets on Alliants current data., Looking at other cast data RCBS says 3.8grs is starting and 4.2grs is maximum with their 125gr RNL. Lyman lists 4.4grs as maximum with their 121gr TC bullet at 32,900 CUP.

I'd suggest you drop you charge down to 4.0grs and load up a few and see if the pistol doesn't function. Too high a pressure can cause the brass to seize in the chamber. I've had this happen with some pistols when shooting +P+ ammo.

Its not the pressure that operates the slide of a recoil operated pistol but the case recoil (= and opposite reaction) pushing back on the slide that causes it to open. The locking system of recoil operated pistols is there to delay the slide opening until the pressure drops to a safe level.

It could also be that your chamber is dirty or rough causing the brass to grab the chamber wall too tight to extract.

 

[BUGUDY]

Steve C
I will try a couple of 4.0grs and see what happens. The chamber is clean.
Thanks

 

[BUGUDY]

I just tried 3.8gr 4.0gr....and 4.2gr. The gun tries to cycle, it will not eject the fired case and lock open. I am firing one round at a time. So I am doing something wrong, just need to figure out what it is.

 

[rcmodel]

I think your powder charge is fine, if not even a little high.

But without knowing exactly what 125 gr. LRN design you have, I think your 1.154" OAL is way too long.

That increases case volume, which decreases pressure.

Lyman says 1.065" OAL for a 120 grain LRN #356242.
With 4.2 Bullseye a MAX load, giving 32,500 CUP pressure.

Try seating them to about that length and see if it bumps up the pressure enough to cycle the gun.

rc

 

[triggerman770]

Bullseye

First of all the load in Alliant's online and PDF down load is for the Speer 124 Grain Golddot Jaceted hollow point. You said you are using a 125 gr lead bullet.

These have different constuction and loads don't Necessarily interchange..
The Lyman # 48 manual lists the 125 lead #2 alloy with bulleye at 3.3 start and 3.9 max.
The lead bullet expands at the rear for a better seal in the bore than the jacketed bullets do. Now with a hotter load why won't it cycle?

I may be wron but doesn't the Beretta have "polygonal rifling? If so the beuuet is not expanding down into the groove and making a good bore seal. when you tried factory ammo it was jacketed wasn't it? If you are going to load a lot of lead bullets get the Lyman manual and or the latest Lee manual. Both have good info on lead bullets. HTH Bill

 

[rfwobbly]

RC is right.

The powder load, bullet weight, bullet construction, and COL are all inter-dependent. Ignore any data that doesn't give you all 4 pieces of information. Time for you to buy a Lyman reloading manual, my friend.

 

[BUGUDY]

RC and MrWobbly.
I am going to the gun shop tommorrow and get a manual.
4.0grs Bullseye
125gr Missouri Bullet LRN
COL 1.085
Still will not eject fired round. Close! but no cigar. I think I might try another powder.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, I don't think changing powders is going to do anything at all.

If 4.4 Bullseye at the 1.065" seating depth I suggested doesn't cycle, it has to almost be gun related.
That is a full-pressure 9mm load by any standards.

But I see you now dropped to 4.0 grains, and are still seating longer then that!
Oh Well!

Is this a brand new gun, or well broken in?

Is it clean & lubed correctly to reduce friction?

rc

 

[BUGUDY]

RC, you stated 4.2 with a 1.065. I was nervous with 4.4grs and seating 1.065. And yes it is a new gun, and has been cleaned and lubed.
I will try 4.4 grs and 1.065 COL, the gun runs factory ammo fine.

 

[rcmodel]

I must admit I am puzzled by this whole thing.

Your first load of 4.4 should have cycled the gun at any seating depth.

The 4.0 / 1.085" load should have too.

Are you 100% sure your scales are right?

rc

 

[BUGUDY]

I assume my scales are right, I checked them with a couple of bullets one time and they seemed right. I just loaded 4.0grs with a COL of 1.065 and the case ejected and the slide locked open. So I am good with that, but from everything I am reading, RC, your right. I don't know why they were not before. It is a new gun, lubed and cleaned with CLP. The really good thing is, after screwing around with all these loads, I don't see any signs of leading.

Also. I asked this question on another forum, so I got alot of info, bottom line, I need a reloading manual!

 

[Steve C]

There is a note in one of the Accurate powder free manuals that stated "Some high performance handguns (such as the Glock and Sig/Sauer) may not cycle properly with the faster powders."

AA#2 and Bullseye are fast powder with similar burn rates and you may be running up against this phenomenon.

A switch to Unique, Universal or AA#5 or even slower powder may be the solution. Another alternative may be a lighter recoil spring or calibration pack from Wolf gunsprings.

 

[BUGUDY]

Steve, I was trying to find a powder for 45acp and 9mm. I thought Bullseye might work, I am not comfortable with seating at 1.065. I think I might try something different for the 9mm.