fatmanonabike
Member
I'm reloading for my 30-30 and I'm new at it. Comparing my reloads to LeverEvolution, they also grouped well but about 5.5 inches low. How significant is that reduction in velocity?
reloads vs factory
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glockky
Member
What kind of powder are you using? Did you stay with the same size bullet?
I have seen loads shoot randomly different places that another. I always figured it had to do with barrel harmonics. When i changed from from my 170gr sierras in my 30-30 to the lever revolutions my group moved about 5in to the left, but held under a inch at 100yds.
So I would not say velocity is the only factor.
I have seen loads shoot randomly different places that another. I always figured it had to do with barrel harmonics. When i changed from from my 170gr sierras in my 30-30 to the lever revolutions my group moved about 5in to the left, but held under a inch at 100yds.
So I would not say velocity is the only factor.
fatmanonabike
Member
Oh right, Hornady 160 gr FTX with 28 gr IMR 3031. I guess i should have used the LE powder.
glockky
Member
I tried the LR powder and in my opinion if you have a load thats 200fps slower thats accurate i would take the accuracy any day over velocity. The LR powder shot good in my 30-30 though, but I stayed right close to a max charge with it.
Lost Sheep
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What distance?
Faster bullets (even the same bullet, just driven faster) often group lower.
Slower bullets spend more time in the barrel, during which time, recoil tends to raise the barrel's angle, sending the bullet on a higher trajectory.
Ultimately, the faster bullet's path will cross the slower bullet's path, since it is travelling faster, but exactly how far out is not calculable without more information, including the slowing due to air drag.
Without a Chronograph, or more information it is difficult to answer your question.
For now, you will have to be satisfied with knowing where your bullets hit, but not really why.
Good question. Thanks for asking us.
Lost Sheep
Faster bullets (even the same bullet, just driven faster) often group lower.
Slower bullets spend more time in the barrel, during which time, recoil tends to raise the barrel's angle, sending the bullet on a higher trajectory.
Ultimately, the faster bullet's path will cross the slower bullet's path, since it is travelling faster, but exactly how far out is not calculable without more information, including the slowing due to air drag.
Without a Chronograph, or more information it is difficult to answer your question.
For now, you will have to be satisfied with knowing where your bullets hit, but not really why.
Good question. Thanks for asking us.
Lost Sheep
showmebob
Member
fatmanonabike
[I'm reloading for my 30-30 and I'm new at it. Comparing my reloads to LeverEvolution, they also grouped well but about 5.5 inches low. How significant is that reduction in velocity?]
Yesterday I took the chrono to the range with the 30-30 sights set for my reloads. I'm using Win 748 and 170gr Sierra bullets. They chrono'd at 2056 fps with a four shot group in a 1"x1 1/4" group. This is using a FO front sight and a cheap rear peep sight.
I also had 10 rounds of the Hornady Leverevolution 160 gr ammo. It chrono'd at 2350 (approx). The group size wasn't anywhere near as good as my reloads and it shot 6 inches high and 3 inches right of my loads.
I was surprised at the results but will be using my reloads because they are more accurate even though they are a little slower .
I don't think the deer will notice the difference!
[I'm reloading for my 30-30 and I'm new at it. Comparing my reloads to LeverEvolution, they also grouped well but about 5.5 inches low. How significant is that reduction in velocity?]
Yesterday I took the chrono to the range with the 30-30 sights set for my reloads. I'm using Win 748 and 170gr Sierra bullets. They chrono'd at 2056 fps with a four shot group in a 1"x1 1/4" group. This is using a FO front sight and a cheap rear peep sight.
I also had 10 rounds of the Hornady Leverevolution 160 gr ammo. It chrono'd at 2350 (approx). The group size wasn't anywhere near as good as my reloads and it shot 6 inches high and 3 inches right of my loads.
I was surprised at the results but will be using my reloads because they are more accurate even though they are a little slower .
I don't think the deer will notice the difference!
Lost Sheep
Member
Well that empirical data kind of throws a lot of doubt on the physics (theoretical) of barrel rise during recoil making the slower bullet take a higher trajectory.
Back to the drawing board for me.
Lost Sheep
Barrel rise is more of an issue with handguns because of the way the recoil is handled.
Depending on range, POI shift with different loads in a rifle usually has nothing to do with velocity and everything to do with barrel harmonics. If you do a lot of load development and shoot large series with significant spread between the lightest and heaviest charges, what you'll usually notice is that the POI will start to climb with the charge weight to a point and then start back down. That is barrel harmonics, not bullet drop at work.
The difference in bullet drop between the 2000fps I would estimate for your load and the factory 2300fps for the Leverevolution is only 0.6" at 100yds. The rest is barrel harmonics.
fatmanonabike
Member
Well it'll take me a week or two, but for another $20 odd dollars, I'm going to buy some LE powder and see how it matches. Finally some pictures. For proper orientation both photos should be rotated 90 deg clockwise. Target with the quarter is factory LeverEvolution ammo(POA center of target).Scope sighted for LE factory ammo. Target with round is my reloads Hornady FTX 160 gr and 28g IMR3031 (POA about 5.5 inches high)
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James2
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I used the 30-30 for deer for many years. I suggest: Work up a load that is repeatable. Some may call it accurate, however, that is a misnomer. The load must repeat. In other words it must group well. Now adjust the sights to hit point of aim at 100 yards. It doesn't do any good to group well if you can't hit the target. Then shoot. Shoot enough to develop accuracy. Yes, accuracy is the shooters department. (not the ammo's) Learn where your gun will hit at the different yardages you are likely to shoot at a deer, and gain the confidence that you can hit the critter. Burn up a bunch of ammo just becoming thoroughly familiar with the gun and where it hits. Stick with your load. Don't confuse yourself by trying different bullets/loads that will only change point of impact.
My load for the 30-30 is a 150 gr round nose. That is plenty of bullet for any deer that walks.
IMR 3031 31.5 gr. It should put the velocity at around 2200.
Get a big one!
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Lost Sheep
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Thanks. I shoot handguns at paper so often forget about the differences.
Isn't inertia, recoil and action-reaction (Newton's laws of motion) considered physics?The misunderstanding that barrel rise is a non sequitur to this discussion has nothing to do with the laws of physics.
Lost Sheep
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