Rem 870 jamming issues. Need answers ASAP

[Dave Bulla]

Howdy all,

Probably a question that's been hashed around already but I can't find an answer in my searches so I gotta ask.

My daughters boyfriend is new to guns and recently bought a Rem 870 express 12 gauge. They've gone out shooting a couple times and he's having a blast but they are having problems with jamming. I don't believe it's an issue with cheap ammo or an extraction problem but I have not shot the gun myself. I have owned an 870 as my primary shotgun for about 30 years and have NEVER had a jam.

This morning, I got mine out and he had his and we started taking them apart and I noticed a few differences. I figure that's to be expected after 30+ years of production though. One issue that concerns me is that on my gun, I can remove the barrel and cycle the action as if it were fully assembled and it stops positively on the forward stroke every time. His does not. If I cycle it slow, it USUALLY stops but if I cycle it normal, more often than not the fore end and bolt come right out. I'm concerned that there is some sort of "overtravel" in the forward direction but I also don't think it should be an issue when the barrel is installed as that should act as a stop also. His action seems to bind somewhat at the rear of travel and it is not really every time. I've tried getting inside with long Q-tips but I think I might have to resort to a spray solvent and I hate doing that to my guns as it just makes a mess most of the time.

The finish on his is totally different with a more bead blasted texture and mine is all polished/blued. I read that they have break in issues now due to lower quality control but I believe he's got about 8 boxes through it already.

In 30 years I've never had to resort to using grease in the action of a gun but would there be a benefit to lubing the guide rails at least for a while then clean it all back out after a couple more boxes have been shot.

Anyway, we've kinda only got today to piddle with this so any fast answers would be appreciated.

 

[rcmodel]

I've tried getting inside with long Q-tips

You do know you can take the trigger group out, as well as the bolt, in about a minute, just by punching out the two takedown pins don't you??

Get it apart, and clean & lube as necessary.
Grease on the rails, and hammer, & underside of the bolt where it slides over the hammer to cock it would be a good idea too.

But a new 870 Express is never going to be the slick gun your 30+ year old 870 Wingmaster is.

They made them right back then.

rc

 

[Uniquedot]

I wont attempt to diagnose the problems as i don't have enough info and there is an 870 expert here (AI&P) and he will likely know the answer, but I will say that you should not be cycling the actions with the barrels off the guns as it can damage the parts...at least according to Remington.

 

[Isaac-1]

Note they still make 870 Wingmasters, but they cost 2-3 times the price of the 870 Express, which as you seem to have noticed is built to a much lower standard

p.s. It may also be him doing somethng wrong even if you can't spot it, I took my wife out shooting one of my 870 Wingmasters a couple of weeks ago, every time she tried to cycle it, the gun would jam, every time I did it worked fine, and I could not see what she was doing wrong. Just bought some snap caps for her to practice with, but have not had a chance to use them with the holiday stuff going on.

 

[btg3]

My daughters boyfriend is new to guns

Operator error... Or inexperience?
Good chance the gun is fine. That said, there are some DIY refinements that will smooth the action of any new Express

 

[oneounceload]

You were using cheap bulk ammo - depending on which ones, and coupled with the extractor issues so commonly noted every where on the web, it could be as simple as polishing the chamber a little and not using steel-hulled ammo

 

[ID-shooting]

Got to descride the jam. Is it not extracting, ejecting? Is he short stroking it?

 

[Dave Bulla]

Okay, more info.

I pulled the trigger group out and cleaned inside the receiver better. Nothing obvious found. I also used a Q-tip to sparingly apply some grease (thinned with gun oil to a lighter consistency as I do for my old bait casting reels) to the slide tracks and between the bolt and the (don't know what it's called) block that it rides on. My plan is for him to shoot a couple more boxes of shells and next time we clean it, we'll wipe the oil/grease out real well and lube normally. It now cycles much smoother but still does not always stop at the forward end of travel like mine does when cycled with the barrel off. By the way, never heard that I shouldn't do that. Any reason why?

As for the actual foul ups at the range, it might be operator error as you said but the gun was messing up for three different shooters. But, all three shooters were teen agers. My daughter has shot my 870 quite a bit and never had a problem with it and the other boy has shot a lot too but I don't know what all he's actually used. The boy who owns the gun is actually the greenest of the three.

What they say is happening is that they shoot and it locks up and they had to either push forward or pull back and it would move about 1/4" and then it was okay. I couldn't get a consensus of which way they had to move the fore end though. Kids.... Sounds like it would lock up, they'd jack with it, get it to move (one way or the other) then it would eject okay. Ammo was from Walmart but I'm not sure what quality it was. Honestly, the cheap ammo excuse sounds like it's just that, an excuse. A properly made shotgun (in my mind) should operate just fine regardless of the quality of the ammo with the possible exception of some autoloaders.

I'll have to get him out sometime when I can go along and see what it does and see if it messes up when I shoot it.

Thanks for the info so far!

 

[Recon Ron]

It took ~150 rounds for my brothers 870 express to fix a similar type jam. Just needs to be shot more.

 

[T Bran]

The cheap ammo is no joke.
I bought a 100 pack of Winchester Universal 12 gague a couple of years ago. These shells would weld themselves in place upon firing in 3 different pump guns as well as my SS H&R break open. The shells locked up in the chamber so bad that I had to drive them out with an aluminun rod against the bench while pulling on the slide.
I finally just cut them up to reuse the shot in my .410 loader and tossed the rest.
No more cheapie shotshells for me thanks.
BTW this sounds like what is happening with his as well.

 

[RaceM]

Sounds like they are pulling back on the slide while shooting which will keep the action locked until they push forward, letting the slide release drop.

 

[Isaac-1]

Before going too far, I would say try some other cheap ammo and see what happens

 

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

What size shell you using? My great grandfathers 870 wing master is stubborn and sometimes jams with anything larger than 2-3/4. I've used 3" but you have to put some force on the slide to,eject without getting stuck.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk so lay off the spelling criticism!!!

 

[NCJT]

OK. first get on youtube and watch a complete disassembly video as i can not accurately describe the process all of the internal parts to the point you will be able to understand them by typing. and since you've had it apart make sure it's back together correctly, not doubting your skill but even the best gunsmiths still make mistakes. once the barrel is off the bolt should come out the front. inspect the bolt face for damage and grime. inspect the extractor look for damage an wear(it the gun is used). lightly pull out on the extractor to make sure it doesn't have some gunk in the area of the extractor spring to prevent the extractor from flexing out to do it's job and make sure it's all assembled properly with no damage. you will have to take the bolt out to do this. refer to a good dissasmbly diagram and i find the videos on youtube to be most helpful when dealing with a gun im not that framiliar with. if it is new did the gun have extraction problems out of the box or after a box or so of shooting. if it's new stop now and contact remington they will probably either make it right or tell you what to do and that way of diy doesn't work they told you to do it and can't go back on the warranty always get the name of who you talked to and the date and time you talked to them, if it had the problems new there needs to be some more diagnostics. if after being shot some, clean the chamber really good. use some good solvent use hoppes. let it soak a few minutes and then clean out and lightly oil. use a flashlight and inspect the chamber for damage such as nicks or burs and whatever else. also clean the area well where the barrel locks up to the receiver to make sure theres nothing keeping it from seating properly. i forgot to mention. you said a new shooter. is he pulling the slide all the way to the rear in one smooth motion to properly cycle the gun? there is a peice on the inside of back wall area of the receiver that acts to push the shell outward if he is not cycling the gun all the way and smooth it will not push he shell out. also check this piece out for damage. this is about the best advice i can give you without being able to show you or looking at the gun or watching the fte's myself if none of this helps maybe someone here can point out something iv'e missed or forgot to mention, or there's always contact a local competent gunsmith and chat with them. also you can contact Remington they are pretty good at standing behind their products. if i think of anything else in the next couple days ill post on here. good luck and a pat on the back for getting more people involved in the world of gun and shooting sports i hope this problem doesn't put a bad taste in his mouth. be sure this new shooter is practicing gun safety first and foremost.

 

[NCJT]

so i just re-read the op and update a little more carefully. when disassembled the forend and bolt should not just come out i should have mentioned that in my reply i assumed and we all know what that does. there are two springs in the area where you load the magazine that should keep it from coming out without them being depressed. this concerns me that there is something not assembled properly or broken. if he bought the gun used, especially in a private sell he may have bought a gun with problems. like i said check out a youtube video and see if everything looks right to you. if not contact Remington or a gunsmith. if everything looks right or if you diagnose and fix the problem try the other things i said and you should go with them on their next shooting adventure. also, you should probably take them with you sometime and take the time to make sure they are being safe. three inexperienced teens as you say could be a recipe for disaster. safety should be priority anytime, especially given the recent gun control hype. but hey pat on the back for getting more young people involved.

 

[SuperXOne]

Two things are combining to cause the infamous 870 Express "jam". It's common.

First, only shoot Federal brand "promotional' shells. They are steel headed cheapies,,,but they are the best steel headed cheapies. Winchester Universals are the absolute worst at swelling up and "sticking" in the chambers.

Second, there is something "out of dimension" in a lot of Remington 870 chambers. They all look smooth and shiny as glass, but a lot of them will "stick" a shell in the chamber until they are forcibly jerked (or the butt slammed on the concrete) back and the "stuck" shell extracted. The best cure for this is having a long forcing cone cut into the barrel by a competent gunsmith and the chamber polished. I can do this at home with my reamer, but you'll have to seek out a good gunsmith and pay about fifty to seventy five bucks to get this done. It's worth it.

 

[ID-shooting]

Are you saying your daughter can shoot the 870 without stoppage but the boys seem to have trouble with the very same shotgun?

If you are, get the snap caps and watch, or just go to the range with them. If it works for one, it should work for all provided they have an idea what they are doing.

 

[AI&P Tactical]

Jams

If you rack an 870 forward fast without the barrel on it the action bars can get pass the shell latches. So you have no issue as this means nothing.

The ammo is causing thier issues. The thin steel bases swell, the power is as dirt as Unique. Also, these barrels come with a protective coating in and out as they guns can sit for months in a distributors warehouse and then month in some gun shop. If a guy cleans the weapon and scrubs this mess out of the chamber before he shoots the weapon it is amazing how little problems he will have breaking the weapon in.

 

[Dave Bulla]

Okay, looks like some more good points and more questions from you all. I'll try to answer them.

Ammo: Talked to my daughter again and she said it was in a blue box and she thought it started with an F. So, musta been Federals. It was 2 3/4" and the gun has a 3" chamber so I'm wondering how the forcing cone would even come into play?

The gun has had 8 boxes of shells through it since purchased new at Cabela's about two months ago so figure 200 rounds.

The gun was cleaned after the first time used and after each subsequent outing. The young man who bought it is doing a pretty good job of staying on that. He's like I was as a kid and enjoys the cleaning almost as much as the shooting. I was always taught to clean my guns after each use unless they were going right back out in the field again and have told him to do the same.

also, you should probably take them with you sometime and take the time to make sure they are being safe. three inexperienced teens as you say could be a recipe for disaster. safety should be priority anytime, especially given the recent gun control hype. but hey pat on the back for getting more young people involved.

We may in fact try to get to the range today or tomorrow since I'm off work for the holiday.

The "teens" are two 18 year old boys and my daughter who will be 18 tomorrow. One boy (or I should say "young man") is a Marine who was also an Eagle Scout and is currently home on leave after boot camp. He's a real good kid who has shot quite a bit and is mature beyond his years. My daughter has been shooting rifles since she was old enough to hold 'em at the bench and shotguns since she could handle a 410 single shot off hand. She hunts and has taken deer, turkey and most small game available around here. The boyfriend (who owns the gun) is the least experienced but has shown good common sense so far and has really looked to me for instruction. He has also been through hunter safety here in MO (as have the other two) and took a class in school called "hunt, camp, fish" which is a sort of all around outdoor class and includes hunter ed. instruction. In all, while I am always concerned about a moment of carelessness with kids and guns, I feel pretty okay with them going shooting and prefer they do that over just "hanging out" around town, the mall, movie theater etc.

If you rack an 870 forward fast without the barrel on it the action bars can get pass the shell latches. So you have no issue as this means nothing.

As for the fore end and bolt coming out when cycled, it WILL do it even when run slow and gentle but is far more common when run at a more normal or moderate stroke. My personally 870 feels so solid and catches so firmly that I am sure it would not come out even if I slammed it. I know that you need to cycle a pump smartly or as I always tell people, "like you mean it". But I also know that some people really slam the snot out of a pump handle. I'm not doing that even when I say I'm cycling it hard or normal. Just a nice crisp movement.

Are you saying your daughter can shoot the 870 without stoppage but the boys seem to have trouble with the very same shotgun?

Nope, all three had it jam about equally.

Yesterday while the gun was apart and I was looking for problems, I thought maybe the mag tube follower was interfering with the guide rail springs so I took the follower and spring completely out. I also took my gun apart and put my fore end and bolt in his gun and vice versa. The problem stayed with the receiver and did not follow any combination of exchanged parts. If I had to take a real hard guess, I think there may be an incorrectly bent or beveled edge on one or both guide rail retainer springs.

While typing all this, I got the idea to record a short video to actually show you all what I am talking about. I'll try to get it uploaded and linked shortly.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Dave Bulla]

Well, uploaded a video to the computer but can't get it onto photobucket. I think maybe it's too big?

 

[Boattale]

I inherited my best friend's 870 express. Had the exact same problem with the action locking up shooting white box Winchester during a backyard clay shoot. I chucked up a section of cleaning rod in the cordless drill, wrapped some steel wool around an old bore brush , sprayed some WD40 on it and let it run in the chamber about ten minutes. The problem has not returned. Don't know whether the polishing action did the trick or just not shooting white box Winchester anymore. But one of them worked.

That same white box Winchester functioned fine in my Benelli Super 90 and my older Wingmaster. I tend to think the problem was a combination of a chamber that could have been a little slicker and the ammunition.