Remington .38 Spl 158gr +P LHP in Vyes Ballistics Gel

[5pins]

Test Gun: S&W M442
Barrel length: 1 7/8 inches.
Ammunition: Remington .38 Spl 158gr +P LHP (Part # 22297)
Test media: 10% Vyse Ballistics Gel
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 763fps
BB Calibration: 3.75 at 585fps, 3.73 at 577fps

https://general-cartridge.com/2022/11/25/remington-38-spl-158gr-p-lhp-in-vyes-ballistics-gel/

 

[Ru4real]

Penetration was about 13 inches.

 

[UncleEd]

Yup, the FBI/Chicago/St. Louis load.

Picked up several boxes of the newly
manufactured load several months ago.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Pathetic velocity.

Pick up some standard pressure or full power +P 158 grain LSWCHP loads from Buffalo Bore if you want the effectiveness that made the FBI load what it is, not a watered down load such as this Remington garbage.

 

[UncleEd]

1.7/8 barrel of a single revolver.

Not a fair test of the ammo. Velocity
can be very dependent on barrel length.

4 inch and 6 inch barrels might/will give
dramatically different results.

Penetration results were quite decent
for such a heavy bullet from a snubby.

 

[RON in PA]

Tests with a 4 inch barrel needs to be done, but it is good to know what shots from a snubby will do I suspect most folks who carry a revolver carry a snobby.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Archie]

I'm in favor (generally speaking).
The .38 Special I carry has close to a three inch barrel and the Chicago loading (or whatever it's called) seems better than most. Currently I have about fifteen rounds of my old stash of this ammo and I cannot find any current manufacture for sale. So I reload a factor duplication round.
It makes the .38 Special adequate for defensive use. (I do use the 158 RNL "halt or I'll dent your paint" round for practice.)

 

[UncleEd]

Actually the .38 RNL had about a
50 percent chance of one-shot
stops given a good placement.
The .45 ACP RN was around 65
percent. This from a Navy study
I recall reading.

Remember, the .38 probably had
more reports of failures to stop
simply because the majority of
handgun shootings back in the
day were with .38s.

And the Greg Elifritz study contends
that really all handgun rounds usually
require at least two solid hits for a stop.

And none of this will change anyone's
mind about their pet load.

 

[Hartkopf]

FWIW, I’ve recently chronoed some very expensive Remington defense ammo in 40S&W. Out of a G22 the velocity was pathetic.

 

[Jim Watson]

Pathetic velocity.

Pick up some standard pressure or full power +P 158 grain LSWCHP loads from Buffalo Bore if you want the effectiveness that made the FBI load what it is, not a watered down load such as this Remington garbage.

Yes and it will kick the snot out of you from a lightweight gun, too. The feds used the original in .357 magnums.

 

[defjon]

Am I the only one who thinks these results aren't bad? Especially with a little old smith 442, that competed with the the tiny 14 oz 380s.

Low velocities, sure. But always acceptable penetration and sometimes pretty dang good expansion. How was the felt recoil in the airweight?

 

[UncleEd]

Am I the only one who thinks these results aren't bad?

No, see Posting No. 5.

 

[Goosey]

Pathetic velocity.

Pick up some standard pressure or full power +P 158 grain LSWCHP loads from Buffalo Bore if you want the effectiveness that made the FBI load what it is, not a watered down load such as this Remington garbage.

The Buffalo Bore stuff is way more powerful than the "FBI load". Buffalo Bore is going 1,162 fps from a 4" barrel. As of 1979 the Winchester "FBI load" was 158 gr LSWCHP+P at 915 fps from a 4" vented barrel.

 

[UncleEd]

Goosey's posting clarifies the standing
of the FBI load.

I suspect the new manufactured Remington
load in a 4-inch barrel will achieve 850 fps
to 900 fps depending on barrel gap, chamber
dimensions, barrel tightness, all of which can
be different on gun to gun, even by the same
maker.

 

[5pins]

Am I the only one who thinks these results aren't bad? Especially with a little old smith 442, that competed with the the tiny 14 oz 380s.

Low velocities, sure. But always acceptable penetration and sometimes pretty dang good expansion. How was the felt recoil in the airweight?

Recoil wasn't too bad. I wouldn't want to shoot it all day, but certainly controllable.

 

[trackskippy]

Actually the .38 RNL had about a
50 percent chance of one-shot
stops given a good placement.
The .45 ACP RN was around 65
percent. This from a Navy study
I recall reading.

Remember, the .38 probably had
more reports of failures to stop
simply because the majority of
handgun shootings back in the
day were with .38s.

And the Greg Elifritz study contends
that really all handgun rounds usually
require at least two solid hits for a stop.

And none of this will change anyone's
mind about their pet load.

I think the main problem here is, people want to "buy their skill" rather than put in the time to gain it. It seems a lot of the thinking is, the bullet/load will do the work for them, when thats pretty far from the truth.

There are no magic bullets, especially when it comes to handguns, and your placement and unhesitating repetition, making good hits, are more important than what the bullets or loads are.

Personally, Id rather have something like a heavier-weight LSWC in my revolvers than anything else, and prefer good penetration over questionable expansion.

 

[defjon]

It's true, don't discount the lrn. Paul Harrell has a good video, they do a number on the meat targets. And you might afford the practice.

 

[UncleEd]

Personally, Id rather have something like a heavier-weight LSWC in my revolvers than anything else, and prefer good penetration over questionable expansion.

I've told this story numerous times on gun forums.
It's about a Chicago cop reporting his district's
first use of the FBI/Chicago load. The officers
were told that the bullet would expand and not
zip right through like the LRN.

In that shooting the FBI load zipped right through
for a kill.

After the Miami shootout, the FBI wanted a powerful
round that could penetrate very well. Along came the
.40. But now the FBI is back to the 9mm in a
configuration that apes the old FBI .38 Speial load.

 

[amd6547]

I've used that Remington load quite a bit.
I recall that when Remington relabeled it as part of their "HTP" line, there were reports that it was loaded weaker than the previous version. There were quite a few threads about that.

 

[mavracer]

Pathetic velocity.

Pick up some standard pressure or full power +P 158 grain LSWCHP loads from Buffalo Bore if you want the effectiveness that made the FBI load what it is, not a watered down load such as this Remington garbage.

The Buffalo Bore load shot terrible in both my snubs. Extra oomph only helps if you hit the intended target.

 

[eddiememphis]

Am I the only one who thinks these results aren't bad?

Yup.

Obviously you need to carry at least a 10mm and at at least three 17 round magazines or you and everyone you have ever known are in grave peril, due to your lack of firepower.

You just ain't tactical, bro.

 

[warnerwh]

The Buffalo Bore 38 special +p load shoots to POA in my sp101 at 10 yards. It was also accurate. Chronograph readings on Youtube with this load are well over 1,000 fps with snubbies. Save for Paul Harrell using a 1 7/8" Smith where he only got I believe about 960 fps.

 

[dickydalton]

Alls I'm saying is, Speer Bonded Gold Dot Bonded 125 Grain HP Underwoods I chronoed out of my SP101, 2.25" were doing only an average of 1184 and Underwood said they would do 1200 FPS! What do you think is in my K6S first?

 

[wcwhitey]

It’s a great load, not for snubbies though! If expansion is a mist! Just a bit too slow. A 4” Mode 10 and you have an accurate reliable man stopper. From a 1 7/8” J frame, maybe! That is the story of the .38 Special. Either go light and faster than 158 Grain to ensure expansion or carry the 158 understanding that it may not expand. The thing is to me that if it doesn’t expand the bullet design is still superior to a RNL. That accounts for something. I think there are better choices for the short barrels though.