Remington 700 - looking for advice

[starnbar]

One of my thoughts is the trigger, you installed, I had a Smith install mine, the issue I had was that the trigger cartridge and shoe are wider than the factory trigger and it was contacting the inside in the reciever area and in the bottom metal that the shoe comes through. Make sure it's not hitting in either of those places. If it is Inlet, filet some wood or what ever stock material is and file out trigger guard. Contact here is a serious detriment to good accuracy.

BINGO we have a winner

 

[Howa 9700]

Update on the rifle in question. Is now back from the smith, having been pillar bedded, recoil lug bedded and barrel free floated. Smith found one hard spot where barrel was rubbing on the stock. Also found the front sling swivel stud was screwed in so deep it was also rubbing on the barrel. So two different hard contact points nearly a foot in front of the chamber to potentially alter harmonics as the barrel heats up. Might account for the horizontal strings I was getting.

Identical loads have been created and are waiting a chance to duplicate previous groups. Hope to shoot those in next few days, weather permitting.

 

[Howa 9700]

I will check on the trigger clearance.

 

[Skylerbone]

So a rifle that shot factory ammo just fine throughout it's life is now inaccurate with reloads and everyone is missing the obvious and pointing you to the stock?

First thing is get some factory ammo and see if it still shoots funny. If it does, then go to the stock.

OP did that straight away.

first step in reloading was to finish off around 30 rounds of old, mixed lots of factory ammo for the brass. Groups were less than stellar......around 2 to 3 inches at best.....but considering the ammo, was not a concern.

 

[Nature Boy]

To bring reloads back into the discussion….

When doing load testing where you might be comparing two or more different powders (or primers) in the same session, always clean your barrel before making the change.

I don’t have a scientific answer for why this is, but often the fouling from one component version will upset the accuracy of the next. I’ve seen it enough in my own observations to believe it.

 

[JFrank]

I normally limit my contributions to THR to the reloading forum, but this is not that, although it appears to be a problem uncovered by reloading. The gun has accuracy issues.

So rifle in question is a lightly used Rem 700 BDL in 6mm Rem that has been in the inventory since 1978. Lightly used, cause once sighted in, it would kill a deer, then go back into storage. There were long stretches when it wasn't used at all. Never used anything but factory and probably not over 100 rounds of that ever. Now that I'm reloading for all rifles, finally got around to loading for this gun. First discovery was how crappy the trigger was......which was solved by replacing factory with Timney trigger.

But once that was resolved, first step in reloading was to finish off around 30 rounds of old, mixed lots of factory ammo for the brass. Groups were less than stellar......around 2 to 3 inches at best.....but considering the ammo, was not a concern.

However, first groups of reloads were no better and same pattern. A lot of horizontal stringing. Part of that could be me, part wind.....but not to the extent I saw. Not expecting bench rest accuracy levels, but do expect 1 MOA or better from hand loads. 3 and 4 inch spreads is not going to cut it.

Starting doing some research on these vintage Remington's and a couple things popped up. One was debate on free floating the barrel (or not). Something about a support post. This one has not had anything done to it. A dollar bill won't go anywhere.

Then it comes down to either you get an accurate gun from the box, or you don't. If not, free floating, bedding and replacement stocks come up.

Is there consensus on what to do?

If the gun or scope was in question or had barrel problems I would venture to say that rounds would scatter in all directions rather than just horizontal. I would review the load data and work up a new load that was repeatable.

 

[Howa 9700]

Just got back from the range......and must say......that was a major disappointment. Scope was removed by the smith to do the bedding work. He then put it back on and had bore sighted it, so first order of business was to check zero and sight it in using some reloads a friend of mine made me a few years back before I got back into reloading. His are modest loads using new R-P brass. Quickly got it making center hits at 25 yards. Then decent 3 shot groups at 50 yards. At 100 yards, groups started to open up, but that was also happening as the barrel was heating up. Not happy with my reload results at all. but had overlooked a few things hoping for the best, and paid the price.

Then remembering the suggestion to give the gun a chance using factory, I finished with six of those. First three grouped ok, but then they started drifting left as the barrel heated up.

So back to the drawing board. Something still not right. Will take it down to clean the barrel, check all the screws, the bedding job, trigger housing clearances, and then redo the scope mounting.

Then as to my reloads, need to start over with my new supply of once fired matching brass and use that for proper load development.

As is, with good ammo, probably a reliable 2 MOA gun. Had hoped for better.

 

[Blue68f100]

I've had scopes go bad on me over the years. When it happens nothing seams to make any sense. Don't know what brand your using but something to consider.

Since your seeing thermal walk as the barrel heats up, allow plenty of time for the barrel to cool between shots. Bring another gun to shoot while it's cooling. I normally drag 2 extras during the hot summer days. Plus I use a forced air cooling to speed up the time.

 

[Howa 9700]

The 6 factory loads....last shots of the day.........I think the order is right. #1 was a cold barrel shot. That is where I want em. Elevation is good. Drift to the left......not so much. BTW, wind was light and variable. That wasn't it. PS: 100 yards

 

[JFrank]

Looks like the wind got ya ( coupled with a factory so so load being slow fired) a 1 mph wind will move a 6 mm more than you may realize.

 

[JFrank]

To combat the conditions, one could shoot three shots at a steady pace capturing one condition shared by all shots and I would venture to say those rounds would be surprisingly close together.
At the moment you have two groups/ two conditions and neither are bad.

 

[Skylerbone]

As is, with good ammo, probably a reliable 2 MOA gun. Had hoped for better.

If you’re simply keeping it to continue its previous course as a no fuss hunting rifle, consider a few boxes of factory ammo put back and let it lie, no sense trying to coax out performance that isn’t there *if* you find POI is shifting with each subsequent shot and or accuracy is meh.

If you’re dedicated to making the rifle a real shooter, then next step is likely to be a re-barrel. Now this assumes you are otherwise good enough to shoot small with other rifles and that the scope has enough magnification for good shot placement and is not defective.

I have a few tried and true rimfire rifles that I use to test scopes with as they are cheaper to shoot/cheaper to re-zero after. Better than pulling a scope from another centerfire then zeroing 3 times with costly ammo.

Id take a 2 MOA meat getter around here based on typical hunting distances, though your circumstances may vary.

 

[Nature Boy]

@Howa 9700

Do you have a rifle that consistently shoots small?

 

[Howa 9700]

Have an air rifle that I can plink bottle caps with at 50 yards.

Otherwise..........have posted these before, but here are a couple targets I shot at same 100 yard range from two different rifles.......my reloads with minimal load development. Having said that, I don't have near the training or experience most guys on here would have.....so I get and expect pulls and flyers.....but in general........if I take my time and focus, I can get decent results.

Should probably add......if I can get these sporting rifles used for hunting shooting 1 MOA....at close to factory ammo velocity for the bullet..........groups I can cover with my thumb......that is good enough for my purpose. Center them 1 inch high at 100 yards and let them go to work. Four shot groups you can barely cover with your hand.......would still kill deer inside 100 yards.......but again, hoping for better.

 

[243winxb]

You can shoot, rifle doesnt. Like i said

Bedding, floating, new trigger, cant fix a bad barrel.

The fastest way to change accuracy is change bullets, if all else is correct. Good luck.

My first new bbl & bed job from a well know smith, many years ago, didnt go well. The bedding job was the major problem.

 

[Howa 9700]

On load development, I had hoped to short circuit the process and get lucky like I did with the two other rifles (targets shown). Wasn't wanting to burn through valuable components if I didn't have to. Looks like I am going to have to.

The 6mm Rem is a bit like the 243 Win in that it falls in that awkward transition between faster powders like 4064, Varget, etc, and the 4350's and 4831's. Do a search on "pet loads" and IMR4350, H4350, both 4831's and RL19 show up all over the place. Yet Hornady's reloading data says IMR4064 gives the best results. Good news is I have all of those and 4 different 6 mm hunting bullets to play with.

Hopefully, something starts to work. This was my first rifle, so has a bit of sentimental value. But if it won't shoot, it won't shoot. Rather have a keeper than a cull.

 

[Nature Boy]

Usually when I have horizontal dispersion like you’re experiencing it’s me and not the rifle or the load

 

[stillquietvoice]

What is your twist rate, the original 6mm rem had a slow rot 1:12 or1:14 can't remember which that were designed to shoot lighter bullets, think varmint weight. Do it may not shoot 200 gr bullets very well

 

[Howa 9700]

As I understand it, original version was .244 Rem, which had the 1:12 twist rate. This is a newer 6mm Rem, so I assume has the 1:9 twist. My hoped for bullets are 100 grain. Have Hornady Interlocks, Nosler Partition and Sierra Game Kings (loading all hunting bullets).

Took the gun down to check the bedding job. From what little I know about how to do a bedding job, looked good. Cold......barrel float job will slip a dollar bill. Even paper instructions from my die set. Would not allow a single business card to pass, so even though floated, once barrel heats up, it may still make contact. Will check, but doubt that is the issue. Did find a new scratch mark on inside of stock were new Timney trigger may have been rubbing. Eased that to eliminate any contact and put her back together. Left scope alone for now.

 

[Howa 9700]

As for my buddy's reloads using new R-P brass, I asked and he loaded those without resizing. I found a lot of variation in the lot.....so pulled about 15 of those down, resized it all to be 0.002 under my fired brass headspace, then reloaded his new brass with my measured loads of IMR4350 and my bullets.....to a 15 shot Satterlee load ladder. Will see how all that pans out one of these days.

 

[243winxb]

The wood barrel channel needs to be sealed to keep moisture out.
When the front screw, at the recoil lug is tightened, the magazine should not make contact first. If magazine is contacting action & floor plate, the action will not be tight in the stock.



As far as barrel twist rate, 1 turn in 10" on my Rem 40x & 600 Mohawk. Both in 243 winchester. Both 1970's guns. Twist can be measured with a tight patch on a 1 piece cleanjng rod.
If a 10 twist, its not going to shoot long bullets well. Here a flat base, round nose 100 gr works, because its shorter, base to nose. https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml

Is your rifle ADL or BDL?

 

[243winxb]

barrel float job will slip a dollar bill.

Usually the clearance is between .030" for light hunting contours and up to .050" or more for heavy tactical contours.

#24 https://mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-stocks-faq.php

 

[Howa 9700]

This gun is a BDL.

 

[JFrank]

Do you take a wind flag to the range with you ?

 

[Howa 9700]

Nope.......and I have several. Can never remember to bring them. Also, usually skip the range if the wind is up. That particular range is in a creek valley surrounded by tall woods. Only opening is the 100 yards of grass between benches and backstop.