Remington 870- Express vs. Wingmaster

[earlthegoat2]

Wingmaster was just a name Remington put on this particular firearm. They also had Fieldmaster (572), Speedmaster (552), Targetmaster (41/510), Gamemaster (760/7600) and many others.

It just happened that the 870 reached such a point of notoriety and popularity that it became advantageous for Remington to make a dumbed down version with similar construction but made to a price point and they stripped it of the Wingmaster designation and gave it Express. A name very unbefitting of the rest of their model names apparently.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I have clones of 870s, an express with plastic furniture and 3 barrels, and 2 wingmasters, the wingmasters are smoother by far, then the clones, then the express, I've tried smoothing up the internals but there was no difference. My clones are H&R and 3 ATIs, the ATIs are the smoothest. I like the safety since I was brought up using that style and have trouble with the top mounted safety.
I've shot cheap steel and 3" turkey rounds and have only had to polish 1 chamber and that was a light polish in the 870 rifle barrel (it is still tight but doesn’t stick). The H&R uses Browning/Win chokes ???.
For home defense I use the clones, turkey shoots is the wingmaster, hunting the express.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Ok... I've gathered the 870 Wingmaster is Remington's premier pump gun... how does a current Wingmaster compare to a current Ithaca 37 ?

 

[George P]

Which Ithaca? The ones that were made by Ithaca, or the new ones made in Ohio?

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Which Ithaca? The ones that were made by Ithaca, or the new ones made in Ohio?

Ohio's

 

[George P]

I know they had serious teething issues at first; so much so that a gun writer friend of mine was sent one to review; he had to return it to them twice and basically said if you can't get the third time right, don't bother sending it.
Hopefully that has been corrected. I owned one made ~1980 (bought new) and it worked great; one of a very few guns that have come and gone that i should have kept, especially as a LH shooter.

 

[jaguarxk120]

I shot a new Model 37 several years ago, it functioned flawlessly,
just like a fine watch.
The new Ithaca's are built tighter than the older ones.
I do like the older M37's built for the 2 3/4 inch shells, they are lighter.
The stocks on the prewar models are cut differently than the more
modern models.

 

[Blue Brick]

I have clones of 870s, an express with plastic furniture and 3 barrels, and 2 wingmasters, the wingmasters are smoother by far, then the clones, then the express, I've tried smoothing up the internals but there was no difference. My clones are H&R and 3 ATIs, the ATIs are the smoothest. I like the safety since I was brought up using that style and have trouble with the top mounted safety.
I've shot cheap steel and 3" turkey rounds and have only had to polish 1 chamber and that was a light polish in the 870 rifle barrel (it is still tight but doesn’t stick). The H&R uses Browning/Win chokes ???.
For home defense I use the clones, turkey shoots is the wingmaster, hunting the express.

My Protector turned my boys into 870 fans.

 

[jaguarxk120]

As one shooter say's "Life is too short to hunt with a ugly gun".
For me I'll always take a Wingmaster over any copy, they are worth it!

 

[PapaG]

I would appreciate it if those who own/shoot Express 870s chime in with
their experience in using the cheap steel-based ammunition that floods
the market every season

- Pro ?
- Con ?


.

I rarely have a problem with promo ammo in a WM. Sticky in the express. Or, it was til I polished the chamber.

 

[George P]

I rarely have a problem with promo ammo in a WM. Sticky in the express. Or, it was til I polished the chamber.

Which isn't hard to do, but IMO, it should not have left the factory that way.

 

[Oldshotty]

how does a current Wingmaster compare to a current Ithaca 37?

Two years ago I bought a new Wingmaster Claro and a new M37 about a month a part, the Ithaca is a work of art, Remington ended up buying the Wingmaster back due to quality issues, the Ithaca was superior in every aspect and it wasn't even close.

 

[entropy]

As fond as I am of the 870 Wingmaster, as near as I can tell, the Browning BPS is a better executed premium pump shotgun than the 870. Better checkering, Wood, bluing, etc.

Other than that opinion, they are constructed following a similar theme. Forged steel externals and stamped internals. I don’t know if the BPS has any MIM parts or not. I’ve shot over 5000 rounds through my 20 ga BPS and if it’s broken anything, I didn’t notice. I’m sure, many can say the same for the 870.

The BPS is a well-crafted solid shotgun. Where you end up paying for it is in weight. They are boat anchors. The Ithaca 37 does everything the BPS does, (except the mag cut-off and tang safety) and does it weighing less.

I would appreciate it if those who own/shoot Express 870s chime in with
their experience in using the cheap steel-based ammunition that floods
the market every season

- Pro ?
- Con ?


.

When I was a 4-H leader, I'd see 870's not extract steel based shells immediately on firing. sometimes after letting it sit, It would eject.

My Tactical Magnum jammed on a Federal Game and Field steel based load. I ripped my finger apart mortaring it out. (in the middle of a round of Trap!)





Some guns run steel base fine. Some don't.

A friend wanted to try my Ljutic and shot a Rio steel based. It stuck. I laid it open with the hull still stuck in it, on the picnic table behind the Trap field. A couple minutes later, it ejected. Not extracted, (which is what the gun has), ejected. The steel based hull had finally contracted enough to move, and the extractor had just enough spring pressure to eject the round about 2 feet.


The bottom line;
Wingmaster: Fancy, better fit and finish. Think of it as a pre-war M91/30 vs. the

Express's '42 Ishevsk. (I know the OP will appreciate that.) Utilitarian finish, a bit rough in operation sometimes, but that is easily fixed.

BPS; Solid, but heavy; If Al Ljutic would have made a pump, this would be it.

Ithaca 37; Light, but a little bit harder for some to operate.

 

[Boattale]

I would appreciate it if those who own/shoot Express 870s chime in with
their experience in using the cheap steel-based ammunition that floods
the market every season

- Pro ?
- Con ?


.

Stuck in the chamber until chamber was well polished with steel wool around a bore brush chucked into a drill with rubbing compound added to the steel wool. Then no problem.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The BPS is a well-crafted solid shotgun. Where you end up paying for it is in weight. They are boat anchors. The Ithaca 37 does everything the BPS does, (except the mag cut-off and tang safety) and does it weighing less.

If Ithaca 37s had a tang safety, I would own a dozen of them.

 

[Virginian]

I have seen Mossbergs, Winchesters, Novas, and even a BPS being beat on the ground with cheap steel base shells stuck in the chamber. Yes Remington had an issue with some expresses also. 5 minutes with a cheap drum brake wheel cylinder hone and they are all fixed.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

The BPS is a well-crafted solid shotgun. Where you end up paying for it is in weight. They are boat anchors. The Ithaca 37 does everything the BPS does, (except the mag cut-off and tang safety) and does it weighing less.



When I was a 4-H leader, I'd see 870's not extract steel based shells immediately on firing. sometimes after letting it sit, It would eject.

My Tactical Magnum jammed on a Federal Game and Field steel based load. I ripped my finger apart mortaring it out. (in the middle of a round of Trap!)


View attachment 922338


Some guns run steel base fine. Some don't.

A friend wanted to try my Ljutic and shot a Rio steel based. It stuck. I laid it open with the hull still stuck in it, on the picnic table behind the Trap field. A couple minutes later, it ejected. Not extracted, (which is what the gun has), ejected. The steel based hull had finally contracted enough to move, and the extractor had just enough spring pressure to eject the round about 2 feet.


The bottom line;
Wingmaster: Fancy, better fit and finish. Think of it as a pre-war M91/30 vs. the

Express's '42 Ishevsk. (I know the OP will appreciate that.) Utilitarian finish, a bit rough in operation sometimes, but that is easily fixed.

BPS; Solid, but heavy; If Al Ljutic would have made a pump, this would be it.

Ithaca 37; Light, but a little bit harder for some to operate.

Hehe. You know me well. I always appreciate a good Russian arms plant reference. Still want a .380 Makarov though