Remington 870p with plastic trigger assembly's
- Thread starter dasanii19
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Virginian
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Why is this an issue? What kind of "plastic" is it? With all the black plastic pistols about, that everyone seems to be knocking each other down to get to at the gun shows, I am surprised if this is newsworthy. When they first went to aluminum about 50 years ago I seem to recall some 'gloom and doom' back then, but with no internet it wasn't that big a deal.
Just passing on the news sir. Though I do prefer a metal trigger assembly as i do a milled AK.
MAX100
Member
It is "News Worthy". Remington is charging top dollar for the 870P. If it is no big deal why did they put metal trigger guards on them in the first place. When customers pay that kind of money for a basic pump shotgun they want to know they are getting the best and no corners were cut.
GC
GC
The plastic guard was put on to lower costs over the "old" method of using aluminum when Rem introed the express. If you want the aluminum, you pay for the 870P.
Perhaps now, however many years later, the results have shown that there is not a difference in quality or durability between the two. Perhaps the only real difference is the cost.
Perhaps now, however many years later, the results have shown that there is not a difference in quality or durability between the two. Perhaps the only real difference is the cost.
+1 with max100. You also gotta remember that the metal trigger assembly feature was a very argumentative point against the Mossberg 590. Also, the question that should be asked now is, whats the difference between the 870 police and the 870 express? If they changed the metal trigger assembly, what else have they changed? So yes I do think this this newsworthy.
Some "plastics" may be more durable than some metals, especially under extreme temperatures, in some applications. Note that similar parts made of composites (generally plastic plus fibers of one or more sorts) are showing up in shotguns that cost a good deal more than an 870P. This gun costs many times as much: http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_competition_guns_main.htm
I'm guessing Beretta didn't use composites to save a few cents on a gun that goes for a few grand, especially when the gun is a unique new design that needs to earn its place in a discerning market where cost is secondary. They probably didn't even do it to save weight, on a 9 lb. trap gun. More than likely, the composites in the trigger assembly are superior to metal for one reason or another.
By whom? Remington's marketing team? They're full of ****. Read a catalog of theirs and it's pretty clear.
That doesn't mean the engineers are wrong. OTOH Remington sure isn't above producing mediocre or even poor products and charging too much for them.
One way to really find out is to drop each trigger assembly from successive floors of a tall building and see which one breaks first.
By whom? By the owners and the coutless 870p vs. 590 polls everywhere.
How many people have ever had a broken plastic assembly?
Has anyone asked Remington why they changed? (Sure, they might lie, but it would be interesting to ask.)
Wingmasters presumably still have the aluminum assembly. Remington makes both still.
I think its pretty rare for anyone to actually drop any of their firearms just to see if they break. So no, I dont have numbers on how many assembly's have broke.
You and I know this topic can be argued till no end. The only way to truly find out which assembly is dominate is to do a torture test with both assembly's. Not it...
MAX100
Member
Remington Chose to use plastic trigger guards for profit gain not to offer it's customers a better product. It's sad but true. What will be next IMI extractor, rough blue finish instead of parkerized. There are other parts you could change to IMI or plastic on the 870P and they would probably last but who wants more plastic or cheaper parts on a $549 basic pump shotgun that is suppose to be top of the line.
GC
GC
I agree.
dfariswheel
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A metal trigger groups sounds really nice until you learn that the Remington metal trigger group is made of compressed powdered aluminum.
The plastic group actually has some advantages.
It won't rust or corrode.
It's self lubricating.
There's no finish to wear off and expose bright metal.
A blow that will break or permanently bend a metal guard will only cause the plastic guard to flex and return to shape.
Some time ago we had a post on one of the forums for people to report broken plastic shotgun parts.
Other than a number of broken Mossberg safeties and one or two broken plastic magazine followers in hard used Police guns, there wasn't anything.
No one has ever reported a broken Remington 870 plastic group except me, and it was a case of a catastrophic accident that would have destroyed a steel guard.
It's the Plastic Age and in some cases, plastic is as good or better then aluminum.
In any event, it helps hold the price of the guns down to reasonable levels.
The plastic group actually has some advantages.
It won't rust or corrode.
It's self lubricating.
There's no finish to wear off and expose bright metal.
A blow that will break or permanently bend a metal guard will only cause the plastic guard to flex and return to shape.
Some time ago we had a post on one of the forums for people to report broken plastic shotgun parts.
Other than a number of broken Mossberg safeties and one or two broken plastic magazine followers in hard used Police guns, there wasn't anything.
No one has ever reported a broken Remington 870 plastic group except me, and it was a case of a catastrophic accident that would have destroyed a steel guard.
It's the Plastic Age and in some cases, plastic is as good or better then aluminum.
In any event, it helps hold the price of the guns down to reasonable levels.
LOL
I'd take modern polymer technology over that old crap any day.
Plastic is not all created equal. There's the cheap stuff used to make 50 cent toys, but there's also the stuff used to make bulletproof "glass" and composites used to build jet fighters.
I'll take jet fighter technology over powdered metal, if that's the choice.
JNewell
Member
I agree that the plastic TG may actually be a better, more durable part. The question is: if this has changed, what other changes in the PM has Remington made? There used to be a long list of differences between the Express and the PM 870s. How many of these are still part of the PM? It'd be interesting to find out.
The 870 and the 1100 are mostly made of stamped sheet metal pieces inside. Objectively, inside a Remington is a bunch of cheap crap.
And yet, I have both, and they're both really reliable guns, proven over many decades of use in every possible environment. They're arguably the best damn collection of cheap parts ever assembled.
But there's not much in there that could be built any cheaper. Over the years, the cheapest version, the Express, has sold a lot of copies, and no pattern of problems has emerged, right?
They rust when you sweat on the Expresses and don't clean them, and their chambers tend to be unforgiving if your shells aren't sized to spec. That's it. No other consistent problems reported, to my knowledge. And parkerizing solves the rust problem, of course.
Anyone hear differently?
And yet, I have both, and they're both really reliable guns, proven over many decades of use in every possible environment. They're arguably the best damn collection of cheap parts ever assembled.
But there's not much in there that could be built any cheaper. Over the years, the cheapest version, the Express, has sold a lot of copies, and no pattern of problems has emerged, right?
They rust when you sweat on the Expresses and don't clean them, and their chambers tend to be unforgiving if your shells aren't sized to spec. That's it. No other consistent problems reported, to my knowledge. And parkerizing solves the rust problem, of course.
Anyone hear differently?
rugerfreak
Member
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- Dec 25, 2002
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My 7 shot Expess is just fine---spray the finish with Remoil and rub it in good---no rust issues---ever.
Did replace the plastic follower with a solid aluminium plug.
I'd put it against anything.
Did replace the plastic follower with a solid aluminium plug.
I'd put it against anything.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
AB,
That's probably about as close to genuine ground truth as anyone can get. Stamped sheet metal and music wire springs, can't get much cheaper to manufacture than that.
Still they run and run.
I've been shooting 870s for most of my life to one degree or another, from borrowing my dad's Wingmaster until now. I have yet to buy a new 870, every one I have owned has been used (including the 28 ga. Express I found not long ago).
I've never had a broken part on an 870. Never replaced anything that was worn out. Not bad for a cheap collection of stamped sheet metal and music wire springs IMHO.
lpl/nc
That's probably about as close to genuine ground truth as anyone can get. Stamped sheet metal and music wire springs, can't get much cheaper to manufacture than that.
Still they run and run.
I've been shooting 870s for most of my life to one degree or another, from borrowing my dad's Wingmaster until now. I have yet to buy a new 870, every one I have owned has been used (including the 28 ga. Express I found not long ago).
I've never had a broken part on an 870. Never replaced anything that was worn out. Not bad for a cheap collection of stamped sheet metal and music wire springs IMHO.
lpl/nc
MAX100
Member
I got hand it to the Remington 870 fans on THR you are loyal. You could even call it blind loyalty.
GC
GC
I prefer metal, in fact I prefer steel - just a preference. One thing about polymer and plastic parts in firearms is that you need to be very carefl about what you use to clean them. Some plastics, and I think polymers, are badly effected by things like gun scrubber.
All the best,
Glenn B
All the best,
Glenn B
Virginian
Member
I don't see where the Remmy fans are any more blind loyal than the Mossy fans, or the Beretta fans, or the Benelli fans. I do believe emotions play at least as big a role as any data (statistics always lie).
One of two guns that I have owned that I sold and really, REALLY wished I hadn't was an 870. I have 5 1100s now. One of them has a bit of finish scraped off on the trigger guard, and I am going to have to buy some of that Brownell's coating, and strip the trigger group, and paint the bare trigger plate, and then bake it. I was just thinking "I wish they made this out of plastic" (meaning a high quality black composite of some ilk), when I come on here and see this. It's kind of funny really. One man's jewel is another man's garbage.
I never realized Glock's only motivation was cutting costs. I thought they just wanted to strir up the anti-gunners about the sneaky plastic guns getting through the airport scanners.
One of two guns that I have owned that I sold and really, REALLY wished I hadn't was an 870. I have 5 1100s now. One of them has a bit of finish scraped off on the trigger guard, and I am going to have to buy some of that Brownell's coating, and strip the trigger group, and paint the bare trigger plate, and then bake it. I was just thinking "I wish they made this out of plastic" (meaning a high quality black composite of some ilk), when I come on here and see this. It's kind of funny really. One man's jewel is another man's garbage.
I never realized Glock's only motivation was cutting costs. I thought they just wanted to strir up the anti-gunners about the sneaky plastic guns getting through the airport scanners.
Hehehehehe.- Status
