I recently became aware of the fact that Remington Arms is owned by a company called Freedom Group. They also own H&R, Marlin, Panther Arms, Bushmaster, and Dakota. I bought an H&R 45-70, single shot rifle. The quality and craftsmanship were very poor. I ordered the rifle so I did not realize this until I was holding it. I understand that H&R is a cheaper manufactured rifle, but the condition of this new rifle was unacceptable. I had a less than satisfactory response from the manufacturer. They fixed the problems, but were less than cordial in their phone conversations with me. I ended up fixing some of the issues myself. My concern is with future purchases from the "Freedom Group" of products. Has any one recently purchases a Model 700 or anything from these companies? Did you notice a lower level of quality in their craftsmanship? I cannot, with any confidence, buy another firearm from them without holding it in my hands first. Just want to know if anyone feels the same.
Remington Arms?
- Thread starter Elias1972
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Gouranga
Member
I can tell you this I have a R25 in 308 and a Classic 16 from Panther (both AR platform). My R25 fits together better and has a better overall quality (as I would expect) than the Classic 16. My classic 16 is fun and has performed flawlessly but is definitely a lower quality firearm (which I knew based on its lower quality price).
The R25 came bone dry from the plant the Classic 16 was loaded with oil or whatever it is they use at the plant before shipping it.
You would also be surprised in the furniture industry how many brand names across many different quality levels are run by the same company. The function almost as a confederacy. Very loosely tied together. I suspect this Freedom Group is run in a similar fashion.
The R25 came bone dry from the plant the Classic 16 was loaded with oil or whatever it is they use at the plant before shipping it.
You would also be surprised in the furniture industry how many brand names across many different quality levels are run by the same company. The function almost as a confederacy. Very loosely tied together. I suspect this Freedom Group is run in a similar fashion.
QC can vary.
I have a new Model 700 BDL here that's extremely nice in quality & shows quite clearly that Remington can still put out a fine product.
It's soooooo nice, it keeps begging to stay & I'm going to have a hard time returning it.
Denis
I have a new Model 700 BDL here that's extremely nice in quality & shows quite clearly that Remington can still put out a fine product.
It's soooooo nice, it keeps begging to stay & I'm going to have a hard time returning it.
Denis
oneounceload
member
Maybe you need to do more "due diligence" on YOUR part before ordering ANYTHING sight unseen. Buying a "pig in a poke" was never a wise thing to do. Remington, et al, owned by Cerebus, is a manufacturing concern whose job is to make a profit for the shareholders - just like Walmart, GM, Pfizer, or ANY corporation.
The current gun community has said they only thing they are concerned about is the cheapest price possible - the corporations have responded with the goods made to those levels. If that is unacceptable to you, then be prepared to spend more money for something of better quality than you are currently seeing. When US makers have to compete with $30/month Chinese labor and theirs is $30/hour, something is going to give.
Either the gun folks need to demand quality - AND PAY FOR IT - or go buy Chinese stuff and replace it everytime it breaks.
I believe in my sig line, even if most here do not
The current gun community has said they only thing they are concerned about is the cheapest price possible - the corporations have responded with the goods made to those levels. If that is unacceptable to you, then be prepared to spend more money for something of better quality than you are currently seeing. When US makers have to compete with $30/month Chinese labor and theirs is $30/hour, something is going to give.
Either the gun folks need to demand quality - AND PAY FOR IT - or go buy Chinese stuff and replace it everytime it breaks.
I believe in my sig line, even if most here do not
Welcome to the Forum.
Heck of a first post.
Many manufacturers (including Remington, Bushmaster, Panther, Marlin and many many others) make a whole range of products, from top-of-the-line high quality masterpieces to bottom-of-the-line entry level cheapies.
You have to decide which one you want -- high quality or modest quality -- and the price level you wish to spend. You do your shopping and select the product that fits your needs.
Kinda sounds like you bought the gun that DIDN'T fit your needs. Caveat Emptor, my friend.
I've never owned an H&R, can't advise you on that. I have several new Remington and Marlin guns that have good quality for the price. I got great deals on them at local stores, after the hunting season was over. You gotta shop around, and know what you're buying.
Heck of a first post.
Many manufacturers (including Remington, Bushmaster, Panther, Marlin and many many others) make a whole range of products, from top-of-the-line high quality masterpieces to bottom-of-the-line entry level cheapies.
You have to decide which one you want -- high quality or modest quality -- and the price level you wish to spend. You do your shopping and select the product that fits your needs.
Kinda sounds like you bought the gun that DIDN'T fit your needs. Caveat Emptor, my friend.
I've never owned an H&R, can't advise you on that. I have several new Remington and Marlin guns that have good quality for the price. I got great deals on them at local stores, after the hunting season was over. You gotta shop around, and know what you're buying.
MikeNice
Member
.
You would be suprised how many industrys are run this way. Ford use to own Volvo and Jaguar. One company owns Volkswagen, Porsche, Bentley, and Buggati. Conglomorates are all the rage now. Disney owns ABC, ESPN, Pixar, Mammoth Records, Lyric Street Records, Touchstone Movies, Life Time channel, The History Channel, and many more brands. They even own 27% of Hulu.
When I was involved in car audio, in the 90s, there were only about six manufacturing plants making the majority of all car speakers. The factory crud in a '94 eco-box was made on the same line as $600 speakers from ADS. If you ordered enough you could basically call the factory and pick the parts from a list. They would build it and slap your sticker on it.
That is the way manufacturing as a whole works. Even if different companies own the brands they might come off of the same line. There is no need to believe that just because they are part of the same conglomerate they will all be of similar quality.
lobo9er
Member
freedom group also owned a portion of GM (since sold it ) and was apart of the bail outs.
2000Yards
Member
To the OP's original question, yes, I bought a R700 tactical XCR and it consistently delivers sub-MOA performance in harsh conditions (heat, cold & weeks of shooting in the rain, more than 2K rounds so far). This is what the rifle was designed for and marketed towards. It's not inexpensive, but much less expensive than an AI or McMillan.
Usually we get what we pay for, but there are always lemons. I'd put more emphasis on the customer service and the company's response than the fact that you had quality issues with the rifle.
2KYDS
Usually we get what we pay for, but there are always lemons. I'd put more emphasis on the customer service and the company's response than the fact that you had quality issues with the rifle.
2KYDS
kinshipknight
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2010
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- 6
Yeah, just because a parent corp owns a company doesn't mean standards are across the board for the entire conglomerate. Most of the time you've got an autonomous operation within the umbrella of the parent company.
Captcurt
Member
Just learned this today.
I had to return a bolt for a Marlin XL7. (Broken Extractor)
I got it back today and was surprised that it was returned by Remington Arms.
I had to return a bolt for a Marlin XL7. (Broken Extractor)
I got it back today and was surprised that it was returned by Remington Arms.
FROGO207
Member
I own several H&R Handi Rifles, one in 45-70 also. It is a fine rifle for what it is at the price I paid for it. After all it was designed as a harpoon/rope-line launching device over 100 years ago and still viable today. It was not made to be a work of art but it is for the most part a rugged reliable tool for the intended use. CS may be a little poor as they are ALWAYS backed up on that side of things. Ever try to buy a second barrel? Not every one builds a Blaser or Saeco or what ever. Yes you should have tried one out or even purchased it from your LGS as they would have gladly handled any warantee issues for you.
Considering firearms and ammo CANNOT be imported from China, what you say may be true regarding accessories and whatnot, but certainly isn't applicable to the US firearms market. The general idea that a certain portion of the population just wants "cheap" regardless of quality may hold true, but the idea US gun owners are buying "Chinese junk" firearms because of price is simply inaccurate. Too, many of the Chinese firearms I've handled imported BEFORE the import ban have been quality firearms that were (originally) availble at a good price. I love my Norinco SKS, and have seen fine examples of Chinese AK and 1911 copies. While the SKS was originally priced at a point it could basically be used as a disposeable rifle, mine has been problem free for the better part of two decades. Many American-made firearms don't hold up as well or were made as well orignally. While you typically get what you pay for, with some of the Chinese weapons, you got much MORE than you paid for. While China may produce its fair share of utter garbage, its unfair and inaccurate to apply this to firearms, IMO.
Remington recalled their new Versamax or Versamess before it hit the shelves and was available to the local public. Their 105CTI and 887 were disasters. Reviews from gunsmiths on their new 1911 are awful.
Cerebus destroyed Chrysler and cut R&D budgets etc. The new Gand Cherokee is absed on the Benz ML platform. Compeitors all have 6sp or more autos GC has a 5spd that will need rebuilding before it hits 100k miles. Same is true with Remington its the bottom line that counts.
Remington's bread and butter shotguns have declined in quality. Take a look at 25yo 1100 or 870 and compare it to new ones.
I don't use their rifles and never will.
Don't be surprised if Remington files Chap 11. Also its hard to turn out a quality product at a price point when Cerebus management is cutting costs.
Will Remington still be around in 5 years? Who would have thought that Pontiac would be gone.
Va herder
Cerebus destroyed Chrysler and cut R&D budgets etc. The new Gand Cherokee is absed on the Benz ML platform. Compeitors all have 6sp or more autos GC has a 5spd that will need rebuilding before it hits 100k miles. Same is true with Remington its the bottom line that counts.
Remington's bread and butter shotguns have declined in quality. Take a look at 25yo 1100 or 870 and compare it to new ones.
I don't use their rifles and never will.
Don't be surprised if Remington files Chap 11. Also its hard to turn out a quality product at a price point when Cerebus management is cutting costs.
Will Remington still be around in 5 years? Who would have thought that Pontiac would be gone.
Va herder
22-rimfire
Member
I bought a Remington 547 in 22LR signt unseen and I'm quite pleased with it. If a caliber is chambered by Remington, I generally choose Remington first above all others in that price range until convinced otherwise that quality or accuracy is lacking.
W L Johnson
Member
Chrysler has had one foot in the grave off and on since the 70s, so I'm not sure you can blame Cerebus, they're pretty much just an investment group.
alsaqr
Member
i currently own 19 Remington model 700, 721 and 722 rifles. Over the past 50+ yearts i've owned several dozen more of those guns. Fired well over a half million rounds in those guns. Not one of my guns ever went bang when it was not supposed to.
Guys who have the mechanical ability of a chimp attempt to adjust the triggers. Then when the gun goes off they blame Remington.
Ask yourself why CNBC runs this bash Remington tale every day on their channel. The media is trying to energize the anti-gunners in the lame duck congress to pass legislation putting firearms under the control of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.
Guys who have the mechanical ability of a chimp attempt to adjust the triggers. Then when the gun goes off they blame Remington.
Ask yourself why CNBC runs this bash Remington tale every day on their channel. The media is trying to energize the anti-gunners in the lame duck congress to pass legislation putting firearms under the control of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.
ljnowell
Member
Ridiculous. Its his fault now that they turned out a sub-quality product, because he had the nerve to order something? A cheaper product can have lesser quality finish, less detail to fitting, etc., but when there are mechanical problems its not because its a cheaper product, its because the company doesnt care. That surely isnt his fault.
oneounceload
member
Wrong, try again.............
Again, wrong again.......they turn out the cheapest thing they can to compete with the China crap that folks whose only interest is price .........and when that happens, quality suffers..............
ljnowell
Member
Sorry, you are the one that is wrong. You can insist all you want. Fit, appearance, and other things are dependant on price. Function is not. If you make a gun that doesnt function you cannot justify it by saying "at aleast its cheap." At cheaper price it should still function. Not shoot perfectly and be the most accurate, but it should function.
Its ridiculous to say that you shouldnt expect a new gun to be functioning because its cheap.
Ok, to be more accurate, weapons built by Norinco, far and away China's largest gunmaker, can no longer be imported. Regardless, the status of the ban does nothing to address my actual point--Not all Chinese products are crap simply because they come from China. There are thousands of gun owners quite satisfied with their Chinese firearms.
Full Metal Jacket
member
i've personally experienced poor quality remington products such as guns, and their garbage UMC ammo.
their R1 1911 and shotguns are also junk.
bushmaster is still putting out good stuff, but i would never even consider purchasing any other remington product of any kind.
maybe he did research it, and still got a bad one. lighten up, dude.
their R1 1911 and shotguns are also junk.
bushmaster is still putting out good stuff, but i would never even consider purchasing any other remington product of any kind.
maybe he did research it, and still got a bad one. lighten up, dude.
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rscalzo
Member
No, the lousy merger with Daimler-Benz screwed them.
CoRoMo
Member
I have an H&R single shot rifle too. It is worth ever penny I paid for it, which wasn't much. Those rifles are made to be inexpensive. Great little rifle!
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