KrankyKraut
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How good is it as SD ammo? Have you seen any gelatin tests? I'd use it in my 2" Detective Special and my S&W mod. 15-3 4".
Remington UMC .38 Special 125 gr. +P
- Thread starter KrankyKraut
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If you can hit what you aim at with it in your pistol then it should be as good as any.38 spl 125gr JHP's. Marshal Sanow's data says the Remington 125gr JHP is 67% from a 2" pistol which is as good as it gets with a snub noes .38 spl. Remington's ballistic charts give the UMC and the Express the same velocities and the bullets are similar. A few percentage points either way will not make much differeence.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
There are similar rounds available for very little more that will probably be a better SD round. Remington UMC ammo is really meant for practice ammo.
Remington Express 125gr .38 Special +P ammo ($15.97/50 rounds) is the same price but will probably expand more reliably than their UMC ammo. If you really want a reliable SD round and want to stay with Remington their Golder Saber or their Green Box ammo will be a much better choice. Their Green Box 125gr .38 Special +P SJHP ammo will run you $31/50 rounds though.
Remington Express 125gr .38 Special +P ammo ($15.97/50 rounds) is the same price but will probably expand more reliably than their UMC ammo. If you really want a reliable SD round and want to stay with Remington their Golder Saber or their Green Box ammo will be a much better choice. Their Green Box 125gr .38 Special +P SJHP ammo will run you $31/50 rounds though.
Lovesbeer99
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For a 38 caliber (even a +p) I would not use hollow points from a 2 inch barrel. You'll need a 4 inch barrel to get the velocity needed for the bullets to expand. Use semi wad cutters instead.
PointOneSeven
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- Oct 22, 2006
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With the exposed lead, they mushroom really well. I picked a few out of the hillside after popping milk jugs full of water and they turn into perfect 1/2" lead circles with the copper base still attached to the back. It's not a bad load, and they've gone 'bang' everytime for me.
I realize it's not flesh or gel, but it's my experience.
I realize it's not flesh or gel, but it's my experience.
TOADMAN
Member
For self defense, the Speer 38 Special short barrel 135grn+p JHP or the Remington 38 Special 158grn+p Lead Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point (LSWCHP) would most likely the better choice..
Jim March
Member
Toadman is correct. Lovesbeer99 isn't.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Sorry to disagree but you are wrong. Even though I do agree LSWC bullets are a good choice for SD they aren't the only choice. You might have been right 20 years ago but with the new bullet designs and better powders available to commercial reloaders there are many HP bullets that will expand well when shot from a snub nose revolver. Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel .38 Special +P rounds are only 1 example. DoubleTap, Buffalo Bore and several others have .38 Special rounds which will reliably expand when shot from a snubby.
I also agree that there are now hollowpoint .38 loads that will at least pretty reliably expand from a 2 inch barrel, many of them are not "off the shelf" available. So, for those buying ammo wherever they find it, wadcutters and semiwadcutters are still not bad choices. If I can't depend on expansion, I'd prefer to have some weight and penetration. I have no experience other than reading about Buffalo Bore, but the 135 Speer load is the bee's knees. It is a fairly stoutly loaded plus P and both expands and penetrates fairly well.
Jkwas
Member
It's good stuff. It shoots straight and reliably. Also the remington lead is softer than other brands so it mushrooms more readily. Someone did some wetpack testing on one of the boards and it did quite well. I use it for SD in my 3in model 10.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
sthomper,
Welcome to the forum. IMO you will get better results starting a new thread and asking questions instead of bringing back 3 year old threads.
As to your question, every bullet design is different so each will require a different velocity to reliable expand. A very general believe is 900 fps unless your talking about bullets specifically designed to open at lower velocities like I spoke about in my above post. BUT, like I said, every bullet is different.
Welcome to the forum. IMO you will get better results starting a new thread and asking questions instead of bringing back 3 year old threads.
As to your question, every bullet design is different so each will require a different velocity to reliable expand. A very general believe is 900 fps unless your talking about bullets specifically designed to open at lower velocities like I spoke about in my above post. BUT, like I said, every bullet is different.
Out of a 2" barrel I would use .38 Special +P 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint. 4" barrel, I would go with the 135gr +P gold dot.
Over all I prefer semi-wad cutters in a .38 Special as the lower velocity of the .38 Special does not lend itself to reliable expansion of hollow points especially if the attacker is wearing heavy clothing or a thick jacket.
Over all I prefer semi-wad cutters in a .38 Special as the lower velocity of the .38 Special does not lend itself to reliable expansion of hollow points especially if the attacker is wearing heavy clothing or a thick jacket.
From my 2" revolvers factory +P (125 JHPs) from Winchester and Remington run 875-890 FPS. I consider this to be extremely wimpy for SD and I am not at all sure one could rely on such ammo to expand despite what Mr. March asserts with such authority.
I don't feel comfortable carrying ANY factory 38 Special load to defend my life. Maybe the specialty ammo makers like Cor-Bon, etc. produce something worthwhile but I haven't done any research to be sure.
In the 38 Special guns I carry my own 125@1,150 load (1,100 from a 2" barrel). In my gun-friendly state using hand loads for SD isn't an issue like it would be in more liberal areas.
I don't feel comfortable carrying ANY factory 38 Special load to defend my life. Maybe the specialty ammo makers like Cor-Bon, etc. produce something worthwhile but I haven't done any research to be sure.
In the 38 Special guns I carry my own 125@1,150 load (1,100 from a 2" barrel). In my gun-friendly state using hand loads for SD isn't an issue like it would be in more liberal areas.
jfh
Member.
For 38 Special / 2" barrels, I've pretty much settled into carrying a 158-gr. round. However, I also do carry the GDSB 135-gr. round. The factory (38+P) 158-gr. LSWC-HP rounds now all run about 800 fps; handloads can be gotten up to perhaps 830-850 if loaded to CIP specs--and the GDSB 135-gr. rounds run about 860-900 fps.
The 158 LSWC-HP will have "good" penetration, even if it doesn't fully expand; the GDSB 135-gr. is designed for expansion at 850+fps...
Jim H.
The 158 LSWC-HP will have "good" penetration, even if it doesn't fully expand; the GDSB 135-gr. is designed for expansion at 850+fps...
Jim H.
bsms
Member
I tend to discount 'real world shootings' because I don't trust the database - have they accounted for WHAT was hit as well as what was fired, and have statistically significant data?
I fall in the 'bullets make holes' camp. Since few significant things (arteries, nervous system, heart, etc) lie close to the surface, the hole needs to penetrate deep enough to reach something significant. Once it does that, a large diameter hole is better than a small diameter hole.
The 38 is at the bottom end of rounds I trust to make holes deep enough to have a chance of doing serious harm. I think it will penetrate more reliably with a higher sectional density than with extra speed, so I prefer the heavier bullets.
Hollowpoints are a mixed blessing. They make the hole larger in diameter when they work, but with a 38 you risk failing to get enough penetration to hit a vital object. Depends on the angle, and in a defensive shooting you will have to take what you can get. Also, I've read that hollowpoints often get coated with clothing, etc, so you cannot assume each shot will expand at all.
So for a 38, I'm happy using heavier bullets and agnostic about hollowpoints. When you go up in power to a 357, then I trust the penetration more and prefer hollowpoints. I use the Buffalo Bore .38+P in my Model 60 snubbie, but I've never shot anyone and certainly haven't shot hundreds, so I don't KNOW if that is right. I have a 44 Mag as a home defense gun...shoot magnums for fun, but use 44 specials for home defense. That should make a big enough and deep enough hole, and anything after that is just added recoil. I don't expect any bears to invade my house...
I fall in the 'bullets make holes' camp. Since few significant things (arteries, nervous system, heart, etc) lie close to the surface, the hole needs to penetrate deep enough to reach something significant. Once it does that, a large diameter hole is better than a small diameter hole.
The 38 is at the bottom end of rounds I trust to make holes deep enough to have a chance of doing serious harm. I think it will penetrate more reliably with a higher sectional density than with extra speed, so I prefer the heavier bullets.
Hollowpoints are a mixed blessing. They make the hole larger in diameter when they work, but with a 38 you risk failing to get enough penetration to hit a vital object. Depends on the angle, and in a defensive shooting you will have to take what you can get. Also, I've read that hollowpoints often get coated with clothing, etc, so you cannot assume each shot will expand at all.
So for a 38, I'm happy using heavier bullets and agnostic about hollowpoints. When you go up in power to a 357, then I trust the penetration more and prefer hollowpoints. I use the Buffalo Bore .38+P in my Model 60 snubbie, but I've never shot anyone and certainly haven't shot hundreds, so I don't KNOW if that is right. I have a 44 Mag as a home defense gun...shoot magnums for fun, but use 44 specials for home defense. That should make a big enough and deep enough hole, and anything after that is just added recoil. I don't expect any bears to invade my house...
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