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Remington "vtr"

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by gkdir, Jul 18, 2010.

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  1. gkdir

    gkdir Member

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    With out causing too much of a ruckus--can someone on here please tell me the purpose of that BUTT UGLY triangle barrel. I have 700 Classic's, 700 SPS's, 700 Varmint's, but that thing just eludes me. Let the rant begin, thanks.:barf:
     
  2. Loggerlee

    Loggerlee Member

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    I think they thought it would make the barrel stiffer to make it triangular,at least that's what it claims on the Remington website.

    It's not my favorite look,but I don't need another .223 anyway.
     
  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I actually like the look. I fired one in .223 and was impressed.
     
  4. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

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    Well, this is what the guy at the gun counter will tell you.

    Stiffer so that you get the same POI whether with 1 shot or 50 shots!!!

    More surface area to dissipate heat!!!

    Less weight than a bull barrel with same results!!!

    Its cool factor will make you an awesome shooter!!!


    Okay, to be more serious I have shot one in .308 and it was actually pretty good.
     
  5. Detritus

    Detritus Member

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    It's stiffer than a unfluted round barrel of the same weight. It also has more surface area per ounce of barrel weight as well, so it cools faster.

    I can attest to it cooling faster, and accuracy being at least on par with other, heavy barrel, factory rifles. since there was one on the firing line a few weeks back at my local range. There were i think 5or6 of us out there at the time on the 100 and 200 yard portions of the range, Me with an SPS-V, the guy with the VTR, and the rest with various fluted and unfluted heavy barreled savages and remingtons. due to the heat (mid to high 90's with near 100% humidity) we all wound up taking breaks and letting the barrels cool maybe every 20 shots (per shooter) max. That VTR was always cooled down well before the rest of the guns, and he was getting groups on par with the other 2 guys present that were shooting non-handload/non-premium ammo through their varmint rigs.
     
  6. WNTFW

    WNTFW Member

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    Looks wise I can live with it. I have the SPS Varmint so I'm halfway there on the look.

    What I don't like is the integral muzzle brake or porting. I'm not into brakes at all. They also are not allow in target competition so I would not want it.
     
  7. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Well the goon at the counter is dead wrong...about everything. The barrel has a lower moment of inertia, and therefore has less stiffness than either a bull barrel of a fluted barrel. It has less surface area (again than both bull barrel and fluted barrel, but probably a sporter barrel as well). It does have less weight, but has no advantages over a conventional bull barrel or a fluted barrel, and few advantages (and some disadvantages) over a sporting contour barrel. The individual that designed that profile must have been a fashion designer because that barrel profile is an embarrassment to any engineer.

    OTOH fluted barrels can be stiffer than an equally sized bull barrel due to the reduced weight at the muzzle, but the major advantage is the and greater strength to weight ratio, something that no bull barrel can come close to matching. It also has a greater convection heat transfer coefficient (meaning that it cools faster) with equal capacitance (the ability to retain more heat at a lesser overall temperature) to a bull barrel of equal weight, which allows you to shoot longer with less deviation from the POA.

    In short, fluted barrels are the way to go; triangular barrels, not so much...SniperCentral agrees.

    :)
     
  8. DIM

    DIM Member

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    let see to create varmint bull barrel requires square piece of metal from which round barel can be made, but if you split square in 2 triangles you can make 2 barrels and call them VTR its great price reduction as you can see, if you go conventional round way all of the material on the sides of square corners would be lost but now you are set...
     
  9. WNTFW

    WNTFW Member

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    Why would they start with a square and not round?
     
  10. DIM

    DIM Member

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    because you get round from square after you turn it :) do a good research how gun barrels are made, what material is used what do they look raw etc...
     
  11. Detritus

    Detritus Member

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    They wouldn't and they don't. I'm hoping that DIM is being sarcastic.

    Esp. since the VTR barrel starts as a standard round barrel blank just like all the others Remington uses. And then gets the flats and that 3-slot brake created on some form of CNC mill. The VTR barrel starts out just ahead of the receiver with a profile very close to if not eaxctly the same as the standard remington varmint/heavy profile ("No.2 profile" maybe?). Most likely the same blanks are used for the VTR, SPS-Tactical, and SPS-Varmint.

    My issue with the VTR is that other than that barrel, it may as well be an SPS-Varmint.
    By giving the barrel a "sexier profile", that (in my case unwanted) brake, and 4" less length, the price goes up $200 off the bat. it's still in that craptastic unbedded/unpillared stock and there's no way that it's a higher quality barrel or the price jump would be even more, as noted odds are they start with the same blanks.

    regardless of any other merits, I'm not very prone to pay for asthetics. Heck, until last year the only centerfire rifles i'd ever bought were Savages!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  12. DIM

    DIM Member

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    long time before they become round blanks, before they get forged they are usually cut in squares, then forged, then turned for perfect round shape.
     
  13. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    I don't believe that anyone still uses that process, today they use bar stock (which is formed by pushing it through dies) for barrels. I am certain that the VTR is the same, they just mill the sides flat. It actually costs slightly more than a standard round barrel (bull, palma, or tapered contour) because there is an additional process involved in production.

    :)
     
  14. Detritus

    Detritus Member

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    Any foundry producing the quality steels needed for barrelmaking is going to be capable of producing said steel as a ROUND bar, and for the same or similar price as square. so it is exceedingly hard for me to beleive anyone much less anyone doing so for profit is wasting time turning square stock to produce a barrel.

    If anyone does they're an Idiot and probably not long for remaining in business, just the extra "tool time" involved would run the costs up so much as to make it non-viable in comparison to starting with round bar stock
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  15. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    I am very happy with my 22-250.

    I easily get sub-MOA groups with handloads.

    There is very little muzzle jump so I can see all my hits.

    I have a light and handy coyote rifle, then pop on a bipod and I have a capable benchrest gun.

    Plus it looks cool.
     
  16. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    The only type of bbl that I am not sure about is a octagonal profile, and though it would make some sense to use a square blank, I still doubt it begins life as anything other than bar stock. Why?...because Oct. barrels are few and far between and every other bbl they churn out starts as a round blank.

    :)
     
  17. Detritus

    Detritus Member

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    here's two pictures of what a riflesmith in Crosby TX made for producing the Octagonal profile barrels he uses for 19th century single-shot rifle (re)builds.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    so yeah, round blank in an indexing chuck of some sort (likely custom, or at least a custom index plate to make getting to teh next position fast and easy), with the flats milled in.

    I'm sure the VTR barrels are made in a VERY similar manner but on CNC mills with multiple blanks/cutters per setup.

    Also on the subject of Octagonal barrels, they're almost always higher priced than round barrels of similar weight adn general diameter. in great part b/c they spend extra time being milled to that profile.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  18. DougW

    DougW Member

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    Mine does not shoot quite as accurately as my son's SPS Varmit, bit mine is about 2 pounds lighter, and I like the looks.

    [​IMG]

    Still developing loads for both rifles, but 165 and 168 look to be the most promising.
    My VTR will hols <1" at 100 yards, the SPS will do the same at 200 yards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  19. WNTFW

    WNTFW Member

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    If you start with a square you cut across the corners you get 2 triangles. Problem is they are not equalateral triangles. One angle is 90 and the other 2 are 45s. Not an effecient start.
    It just make sense to start with a round. In most cases the raw material is the cheapest part of the cost equation.

    Every machinist I know tries to start with as near a net shape as a starting point as possible. "Near Net Shapes" has become a term in manufacturing.
     
  20. DIM

    DIM Member

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    OK you got me I have no clue how they produced, I thought it would be funny, as long as it shoots have fun
     
  21. rozziboy18

    rozziboy18 Member

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    because its tacticool!!!!! com'on dont you want to be one of the cool kids???

    all jokes aside i owned one in 308, shot sub moa at 100yd in a 3 shot groups on average.
    meaning .600-.800 with fgmm
     
  22. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    Barrels, like bullets, are supposed to be round. Now, the day they devise a triangular bullet to be fired through that triangular barrel, I'll buy it. 'Til then, I'll stick with round (and some fluted/some not). :scrutiny:

    Geno
     
  23. gunnutery

    gunnutery Member

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    Well, regardless of the disputed claims of what it does or doesn't do, I think it looks pretty sweet.
     
  24. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    I know you just forgot to include octagonal barrels. :scrutiny: Now it may have little purpose, but at least it doesn't hurt anything (moment of inertia is about the same, the weight is pretty close, and the surface area is also near equivalent), and it makes for a good looking barrel for those older pattern rifles.

    :)
     
  25. stubbicatt

    stubbicatt Member

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    I like the octagons on some of the Coopers I've seen. Really a spectacular look to them.
     
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