Renting out my Range?

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Cluster Bomb

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I have a few buddies that love my range. They asked me if id let them use it when I am not there...and I am a lil hesitant. Not cause i dont trust them, just want to observe..you know? Some of them teach Carry classes.

I am curious as to if a wavier is all i need them to sign for my legal safety.

also what other legal info i should know when renting out my range to someone.
 
Not a good idea, imho. Liability, liability and liability. They can sign a waiver and it don't mean squat.

Consult an attorney and if you still want to do it, get you liability insurance, property insurance and any other insurance the attorney recommends.

Have him draw up a contract that is iron clad (no such animal) have them sign their life away and collect your money.

I really wouldn't do it but it's your property.
 
You should probably consider some sort of liability insurance in addition to an attorney. Somebody gets hurt on your property even if it is not firearm related could be problematic.
 
They can sign a waiver and it don't mean squat.
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Interestingly, I was listening to an NPR segment last week that covered a property law matter and the jist of it was, a property owner was held COMPLETELY LIABLE for an issue that their tenant/guest created expressly because they'd written up a waiver and had the tenant/guest sign it saying that they could not be held liable if the tenant caused that specific problem!

The court saw the waiver as a clear statement that the property owner knew that the situation created was dangerous and they had the authority to prevent it and chose not to.

Tort law related to property owners and the actions of their guests is dangerous ground.

I don't think I'd EVER allow a guest of mine to bring other people onto my property to teach them marksmanship or CCW type stuff, especially as a commercial enterprise. When the lawsuits start you WILL BE in court. You need pretty heavy insurance to cover these activities, and you can't waive your liabilities. If you're going to do this, you might as well tell your insurance provider that you're opening up a commercial firing range on your property. Don't blink or you might just miss seeing their taillights and dust cloud disappearing over the horizon! ;)
 
MAYBE, if you parceled the range portion out from your personal property, created some form of LLC that owned it and carried insurance, it MIGHT be feasible (all standard IANAL apply)
 
Just as a cheep way to start figuring this out I would start by consulting legalzoom.com first.

Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2
 
Heck no. Sad to say, but it's the way things are nowadays. You are just having a moment, forgetting or underestimating how incredibly stupid members of the human race can be.
 
Heck no I wouldn't do that. With all the crazy people out there that sue people to make a living & those lawyers that need jobs so they convince everyone to sue. Though it does bring to wonder, how do public ranges deal with this, because I know at the public range I used to go down in Phoenix ( Ben Avery shooting range ) I had to sign a waiver of some sort. Interestingly enough though from what others posted it seems as if a waiver is pointless? So why would they do that?

Sorry if this is considered "hijacking" , but I thought it was legitimate questions to add to the thread
 
You as property owner would have potential liability for damages or injuries suffered by person renting the range. A properly written waiver could help limit that exposure, but you could still be sued and have to incur expenses to raise the waiver as a defense. And waivers are seldom 'bullet proof."

You as property owner could have liability for damages or injuries caused to persons off the range by persons using the range, e. g., from projectiles leaving the range. An indemnity agreement from persons renting the range can help shift, but not necessarily entirely eliminate, that exposure. But an indemnity agreement is worthless unless the people using the range have enough money to cover their liability or have appropriate insurance.

If you are going to be renting the range to others, especially for commercial use (e. g., CHL classes), and depending on local laws, you may have zoning and use permit issues.

In short, this shouldn't be something undertaken lightly or casually. Anyone considering doing something of this sort should consult a qualified lawyer and insurance broker.
 
Cluster Bomb said:
I have a few buddies that love my range. They asked me if id let them use it when I am not there...and I am a lil hesitant. Not cause i dont trust them, just want to observe..you know? Some of them teach Carry classes.

I am curious as to if a wavier is all i need them to sign for my legal safety.

also what other legal info i should know when renting out my range to someone.
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Even if you can trust your buddies to the grave, you have to look out for the heirs and the other attorneys that come out of the woodwork.

In today's society you really cannot predict what can happen. It's a sad mess we've let the country become. I feel bad that our grandchildren will never know the world we knew.
 
But an indemnity agreement is worthless unless the people using the range have enough money to cover their liability or have appropriate insurance.
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One of the main reasons in others countries, like England, a shooter MUST procure a $5,000,000 liability policy in order to attend a shoot on someone else's property. Sadly, that day might be coming to the States with all of the attorneys scrambling for big money lawsuits
 
a person can never sign away their right to sue, no matter what it spells out. look at how many prenuptual agreements end up in court after a messy divorce, and how many people get hurt and sue doing things you have to sign a waiver for... unless you place the range under some type of LLC or corporation to protect your own ass and then have a couple million in liability insurance, I wouldnt even consider them using it without me being their and even then, I would really have to know and trust them...
 
If signing a waiver doesn't cover the landowner, then how do states that have free, public ranges not get sued if there is an accidental, or even negligent shooting?

For instance, PA has free, public ranges set up and maintained by the PA Game Commission. No waivers are signed, and it is used at your own risk. There is a set of rulles and regulations that is posted at al the ranges, but if somethingbad happens, neither the State nor the PA Game Comission is sued. At least none that I have ever heard of.

If the waiver contains a list of do's and don'ts, then the shooter violates one of them, I would think the landowner would be clear since the shooter violated a provision for using the property.
 
If signing a waiver doesn't cover the landowner, then how do states that have free, public ranges not get sued if there is an accidental, or even negligent shooting?
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Well, for one thing, it's the state. Great lawyers, plenty of insurance, and even probably legal protections against some forms of civil suits.

You as a private property owner don't play in the same league.
 
Is there any such place known to exist in the state of Maine already?
If so, what paperwork and protections do they practice?
 
p2000sk said:
Is there any such place known to exist in the state of Maine already?
If so, what paperwork and protections do they practice?
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p2000sk said:
This is a list from the year 2005, of some shooting ranges in the state of Maine
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/2170-Maine-Gun-Clubs
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I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, there are ranges at which people can shoot, in Maine and elsewhere. But it's not just a matter of some magic paperwork and protections. Operating a range can be a serious business.

Consider a local range/club I've been involve with over the years:

  1. It's organized as a non-profit corporation to protect the officers, members and volunteers from personal liability.

  2. It carries substantial amounts of a number of different types of insurance coverage. And that's not cheap.

  3. Some years back, it spent a lot of money to upgrade the safety of the range. It continues to incur expenses to maintain the safety of the range.

  4. When the range is open it is supervised by trained and NRA certified range officers.

  5. It must have a use permit from the county to operate. Periodic renewal of the use permit requires satisfying the county regarding environmental toxicity issues and such things as drainage and maintenance of the property.

  6. It must be able to take in enough money from user fees and membership dues to cover operating expenses.
 
Aside from all the liability issues, you may also have local ordinance issues with a commercial range. I know you will have EPA issues if you run a commercial range and don't provide for lead abatement.
 
then how do states that have free, public ranges not get sued if there is an accidental, or even negligent shooting?
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You can't sue the State or Federal government.

Well, maybe you can.

But you will not win, and it will cost you more then you have.

Because your & my taxes are paying their platoons of lawyers.
And your meager life savings are paying your lawyer.

And because the state or federal judge who decides who wins is not gonna go against the employer who pays him.

rc
 
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JMHO, but after reading all the other responses, I'd have to say no. Your friends likely won't be too happy, but any sensible person would understand the liability aspects.
 
rcmodel said:
...You can't sue the State or Federal government.

Well, maybe you can.

But you will not win, and it will cost you more then you have....
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Actually, you can sue and recover on reasonable terms.

I did, in connection with an auto accident caused by the negligence of the driver, a federal employee, of a government car on government business. I got an excellent settlement. My lawyer had the case on a contingency fee basis, and we all did nicely.

And I know that sort of thing happens fairly regularly.

But this is off topic.
 
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