Report: defensive load accuracy testing in the Sig P245 and P220ST

[Richard.Howe]

Good afternoon everybody. I just got back from the range where I did accuracy load testing of 8 different factory loads in my Sig P245 and P220ST. Feel free to interpret the results however you like -- but I wanted to just put another data point out there for shooters of these fine sidearms.

I recorded the c-c dimension of my 5-shot groups, the best 3 shots of those 5 to filter shooter error, and whether the load hit High, Low, or Dead-on. Note that I am not going to say anything about windage, as that is easily adjustable on fixed signts.

Range was at 20 yards, wind was calm, day was sunny (and hot!). All shots fired from sitting position off a sandbag. I did not shoot over a chrony. I know that all of these loads are probably just fine in terms of velocity.

All I ask is that, after reviewing these data, and knowing what you know about the loads reviewed, please make a recommendation with respect to what I carry in each pistol. I will say that my immediate bias is toward the 200 gr. +p Gold Dots in both guns -- since 1) one pistol has a 4.4" bbl and the other is 3.9" and 2) the load "worked" well in both guns -- but what would you do, and why?

Starting with the 245:

PMC 45A 230 gr. FMJ
5 shot group: 1.6"
Best 3 of 5 group: 0.6"
Dead-on

Federal Premium Hydra-Shock 230 gr.
5 shot group: 3.8"
Best 3 of 5 group: 2.1"
High 2"

Speer Gold Dot 200 gr. +P
5 shot group: 2.1"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.0"
Dead-on

Remington 185 gr. Golden Saber +P
5 shot group: 10.5" (At first, I did not believe that I was shooting so poorly -- but this is the aggregate of the 5 best from a 10-shot string. If you shoot a 245, and want to carry this load, make doggone sure it works in your gun first.)
Best 3 of 5 group: 2.8"
Doesn't matter -- my 245 clearly hates this loading

Hornady 230 gr. XTP +P
5 shot group: 2.7"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.4"
Dead-on

Hornady 200 gr. non- +P
5 shot group: 1.6"
Best 3 of 5 group: 0.5"
Dead-on

Winchester Ranger RA45T 230 gr.
5 shot group: 3.7"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.5"
Dead-on

Winchester SXT 230 gr.
5 shot group: 3.2"
Best 3 of 5 group: 0.5"
Dead-on


And now with the 220ST

PMC 45A 230 gr. FMJ
5 shot group: 1.0"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.0"
High 2"

Federal Premium Hydra-Shock 230 gr.
5 shot group: 2.5"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.4"
Dead-on

Speer Gold Dot 200 gr. +P
5 shot group: 2.0"
Best 3 of 5 group: 0.8"
Dead-on

Remington 185 gr. Golden Saber +P
5 shot group: 1.6"
Best 3 of 5 group: 0.6"
High 2.5"
Same box of ammo as used in the 245 -- clearly, nothing is wrong with the batch

Hornady 230 gr. XTP +P
5 shot group: 2.4"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.0"
High 2"

Hornady 200 gr. non- +P
5 shot group: 1.7"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.0"
Dead-on

Winchester Ranger RA45T 230 gr.
5 shot group: 2.1"
Best 3 of 5 group: 2.0"
Dead-on

Winchester SXT 230 gr.
5 shot group: 3.0"
Best 3 of 5 group: 1.1"
Dead-on

 

[PCRCCW]

Nice write up and Ill bet you just had to kick yourself out the door to do it too!
I love doing stuff like this......accuracy, expansion or whatever kind of testing you do. Blowing stuff up is just a riot sometimes.......nothing like getting sprayed with water from 25 feet away from a good JHP!

Plus if your wife/cuter half gives you a hard time about it........"No honey, Im not just going to screw around again....Im doing this for the sake of everyone with a Sig 45!"

Thanks for your time and information.
Shoot well.

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Thanks for the information. Just today I ran across a nice P245 in one of my favorite shops in absolutely pritine condition and put it in SWMBO's hands to see how it fit her.

Maybe if I buy it and put a short trigger on it she'll like it more. She complained about the length a bit.

The P220 info is valuable to me. My 220 is riding in my belt more than the 229 is some days. Thanks again.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[CougarRed]

As long as the round is reliable in your weapon, I will trade 1" of accuracy at 20 yards for premium terminal ballistics. And the 200 gr GDHP is a mediocre performer in the FBI tests.

Of the rounds you tested, only the Ranger 230 is top notch in terms of terminal ballistics. Other rounds to consider:

230 Gold Dot
230+p Ranger
230 Ranger
230+p Federal HST
230 Federal Tactical
185 Barnes Copper (ie Taurus Hex or Corbon DPX)

 

[Richard.Howe]

That's a great point. However, the RA45T coming out of a 3.9" barrel is wound to be more than just a tad slower than when fired from a 5" barrel as used in most 45 ACP terminal ballistics reports.

I really just shot the RA45T for the unlikely case that none of the other rounds worked; I know that this Ranger round is fantastic, but often a pain to get. So, while the RA45T+P might indeed be truly wonderful, many others were only slightly less than truly wonderful and much more commonly available (and not marked for LE).

The 245 begs for a bit lighter bullet, or higher pressure, or both for efficacy -- and since I'm trying to settle on one round for both guns, that 200 gr. +P Gold Dot looks mighty appealing.

I have looked at the 185 gr. Barnes-Corbon DPX with great interest (the TSX is now all I load in my 6.5x55 and .308 deer guns). But -- in the interest of prudence, shooting 200 rounds in each gun to prove reliability -- this translates to $407 if purchased off the corbon website. And I'm not wealthy enough to practice regularly with it, which is also prudent. These doggone things are a buck a pop! Can I accomplish nearly the same effect without going to the poorhouse? I think maybe so.

What are these other Federal rounds you mention?

Can you link to, or post the mediocre TBs of the 200 gr. +P GD?

Thanks!
Rich

 

[PCRCCW]

Federal Tactical's are one of the best JHP's Ive ever shot and when I can find them, they are my carry rounds in 40 an 40 ACP. Excellent accuracy, velocity and expansion. They are rare but well worth it when you can find them.
Shoot well......

 

[CougarRed]

From the Tactical Forums' Terminal Ballistics board, posts by Dr. Gary K. Roberts, ballistics expert:

********************
DocGKR
Member # 582
posted 05-31-2002 04:12

We do the majority of our .45 ACP testing out of a 4.25" barrel. You state you have a 3.9" barrrel, .325" is just not going to matter very much.

FWIW, the 200 gr Gold Dot's have failed to expand during our denim testing, while the 230 gr Gold Dot's have worked well.

Personally, I would assess which one of the following loads is most reliable and accurate out of your pistol and then I would buy 2500 to 5000 rounds of whichever tested the best:

Winchester 230 gr Ranger Talon (RA45T), Winchester 230 gr +P Ranger Talon (RA45TP), Federal 230 gr Tactical (LE45T1), and Speer 230 gr Gold Dot (23966)

Then I would stop worrying about my ammo, forever stop reading gun rags, and spend my spare time getting good training.

***********************
DocGKR
Member # 582
posted 01-09-2004 00:04

In our testing the 200 gr Gold Dot have continually been poor performers; stick with the 230 gr Gold Dots

**************************
DocGKR
Member # 582
posted 04-13-2003 18:00

NOT recommended:

.45 ACP +P Speer 200 gr JHP 53969, lot #48621, S&W 4566, Gel Calib: 8.5 cm @ 588 f/s

Bare Gel: vel=1008 f/s, pen=11.0”, RD=0.72”, RL-0.35”, RW=200.4 gr

4 Layer Denim: vel=995 f/s, pen=18.2”, RD=0.55”, RL-0.54”, RW=199.6 gr

 

[Richard.Howe]

And then there are reviews like this one:

http://www.ballisticreview.com/45acp.html

It looks pretty unscientific, but goes to show that most rounds will work sometimes though they may fail at other times. I guess the critical take-away is that you find a round that works in your gun and practice as much as you can afford.

What does Ammolab say about the 200 gr. +P GD?

Rich

 

[CougarRed]

Richard -

I have to come clean. Dr. Gary Roberts isn't "Martian approved" like your site says it is. Rather, Roberts is a naval officer who studied under Fackler and consults with various LE agencies on ballistics issues.

The Tactical Forums, by the way, is a site geared to LE and the military. Both David DiFabio (Ammolab) and Shawn Dodson post there. I am fairly certain they don't find themselves in too many disagreements with Roberts, but I may be proven wrong.

Here is AmmoLab's recommendations. Notice all 45s are 230 gr, and almost identical to the list I first posted:

http://www.ammolab.myhomepage.com/page/page/1616971.htm

 

[Richard.Howe]

I have to come clean. Dr. Gary Roberts isn't "Martian approved" like your site says it is. Rather, Roberts is a naval officer who studied under Fackler and consults with various LE agencies on ballistics issues.

The Cougar has claws!

You're right. Dr. GR is an expert and I trust his and your assessment. So...it's back to the range with my Gold Dot 230s and RA45T+P ! Report to follow...

Rich