reporting ebay illegal activity

[kungfuhippie]

I was faced with a moral dilemma while looking for stuff on ebay. Someone had listed a stripped steyr reciever with bolt. From the photos I could tell it was not an antique. I really don't care if someone violates ebay's policys. But this guy was illegally selling a firearm. I sent him a PM advising him that it was illegal and against ebay policy. He ignored the message. I waited to see what would happen but people began to bid on it. So I reported it to ebay. I know the feds (and the IRS) often look at ebay for illegal activity and didn't want people to get screwed by the BATFE for doing something dumb. I could care less about ebay policy. There is a place to sell firearms on line, it's called gunbroker or auction arms. Now I feel like a dirty snitch. What would you have done?

 

[hksw]

IMO, not enough information here.

Judging by your description is it a Steyr rifle and not a pistol. Did he mention anything about tranfers? Was it NFA? Do you have a link?

 

[82Magnum]

From your signature, it looks like you have the strong moral values to do right when others do nothing. Ebay's policy is probably to protect themselves...not to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. If you rationalize it by saying that you were just helping that individual avoid doing something dumb, then it's okay to snitch in my book.

 

[kungfuhippie]

ebay pulled the auction. It was a rifle reciever. He mentioned nothing about transfers, etc. Just cost of shipping. He was deceptive in the description calling it a "bolt with housing" instead of a reciever. I own a steyr and it was the reciever. The guy was one of many that buy surplus rifles in bulk, and part them out on ebay. It wasn't just the bolt. He was trying to selling something illegally and was misleading shopers.

(and though the steyr m95 is C&R, a stripped reciever is never C&R)

 

[Derby FALs]

Federally speaking, he could ship it in his own state just like it was. No FFL needed. He would only break the law if he shipped to a non-licensee outside of his home state. I personally could care less what people get over on EBAY.

 

[mpmarty]

Sticking your nose in other folks business is generally considered an invitation to get it rearranged.

 

[-terry]

I think you did the right thing. EBay can decide what to do with it, you just pointed out your suspicions. I'd hate to see EBay get busted...much less the bidders.

 

[1BLINDREF]

Not my job to police eBay. I would have clicked on "watch this item" to see what happend. It would have disappeared before the auction ended. I saw some 12 and 15 round mags listed recently and they vanished into thin air before the auction ended. Ebay police don't let much slip bye.

 

[kungfuhippie]

very THR

No mention of selling only in his state, and some states require an FFL to be involved everytime. He would have had to mark "for local pick up only"

 

[History Prof]

I'm torn on this, but in the end I think you might have done the guy a favor. EvilBay, but I can see ATF making something of this. Did it say "for sale in my home state only"? If not, it is an ATF issue.

 

[kungfuhippie]

It would have disappeared before the auction ended.

that's because someone reported it. I don't care about mags etc. The "ebay police" are like real police in that they can't be everywhere and see everything. Just ask the mods how easy it is to police a message board, let alone the worlds biggest auction site.

 

[Derby FALs]

very THR

No mention of selling only in his state, and some states require an FFL to be involved everytime. He would have had to mark "for local pick up only"

Don't take it too personal. I hadn't read your post when I typed it and my [/sarcasm] key is broken. He legally has to state nothing. It only needs to be legal when it ships.

 

[1BLINDREF]

kungfu
I think you need to get a life - maybe go to the range and shoot or something

 

[PotatoJudge]

You did the right thing to let the seller know. As for ebay, there is nothing illegal about selling guns on the internet, it's just their policy. As with auctions on GB and AA, and private sales anywhere else, it's up to the buyer and seller to obey laws concerning firearms. Nothing at all immoral about not alerting ebay.

 

[Tim L]

There are a lot of scammers on EBay, you saved someone from a bunch of trouble.

Tim

 

[kungfuhippie]

The thing is I don't care about ebay policy. If you read it they can kick out any gun part auctions, they just don't. But this guy was trying to break federal law. I was hoping for stupidity to be his excuse, I contacted him and gave him about 36 hours to respond or cancel his auction.

Gun owners need to play by the rules to avoid giving ammo to the anti's. And push for overturning all the disgusting laws that prohibit stuff. Imaging congress pushing a law banning internet sales completely because of these "loop holes". I bet the people involved didn't want a knock on the door at dark-thirty by the ATF. For all we know it was an ATF agent trying to entrap.

 

[javacodeman]

I saw some 12 and 15 round mags listed recently and they vanished into thin air before the auction ended. Ebay police don't let much slip bye.

I'm confused. I thought that "high capacity" mags were legal again.

java

 

[1BLINDREF]

java
Not according to eBay. Only 10 round mags are OK to sell. They are'nt as as the HiCaps

 

[DogBonz]

you did the right thing

Not that I give a rat’s arse about evilbay. I think you did the right thing for two reasons. First, even if the guy selling it was doing it not knowing that he was breaking the law, he was, and there fore you did him a favor. If he knew, then screw him. You went to him and warned him, and he failed to act. Either way you stopped a potentially illegal gun sale, which, like it or not, is good for us who obey the laws.

Second, what if some unknowing guy bought it thinking that he was buying a “part” when he was really buying a “gun”? That poor guy could face a lot of trouble. Try proving to the ATF that you didn’t know that you were buying a gun. Good luck with that.

Rest easy, you did a good thing.

 

[JesseL]

I don't advocate breaking federal law, but in cases like this I don't care if someone else breaks it (especially as I view the federal law as an illegal and immoral one anyway).

I would have probably let the seller know that he could be putting himself in hot water and left it at that.

 

[PotatoJudge]

Of course, I didn't see this auction. Maybe that's why I don't understand how he was breaking federal law. He may well have intended to, hoping the buyer was ignorant enough to have it shipped out of state to him, or shipping it to a state with it's own restrictive laws on that item (breaking state law then), without going through an FFL. But I don't see how he was breaking the law just listing something for sale.
How is it that you can ask a question on ebay and have it and the answer show up at the bottom for all to see? Can the seller delete these? That might have been a way to alert potential buyers.

 

[DogBonz]

potato

But I don't see how he was breaking the law just listing something for sale.

He wasn't... but ship it out of state, or at all in a state with restrictive laws, and he would have.

How is it that you can ask a question on ebay and have it and the answer show up at the bottom for all to see? Can the seller delete these? That might have been a way to alert potential buyers.

When you ask aquestion, the seller chooses weather or not people can see it when he replies. Its the sellers option, it is not automatic.

 

[Derby FALs]

Maybe that's why I don't understand how he was breaking federal law.

"Thought Crimes" ya know.

 

[SaxonPig]

It's not my job to police the world. Not yours, either, by the way.

I see gun recievers on ebay fairly frequently. I suspect that 99% of the time the seller in unaware that a stripped reciever constitutes a gun to the ATF so it's usually an innocent mistake with no criminal intent. I used to email the sellers but it was happening so often I got tired and now I just ignore these auctions. See my opening sentence. When the ATF pays me a salary I'll worry about helping them to enforce un-Constitutional gun laws.

If they do ship in violation of the law (and as noted in most cases it would have to cross a state line to be a violation) the seller wouldn't be prosecuted if discovered. He'd get a stern warning letter from the ATF.

As for ebay policies, when they pay me a salary then I'll worry about helping them enforce their policies. Again, see opening sentence.

Just out of curiosity, do you call the state police when you see a car with a tail light not working?

 

[kungfuhippie]

Intent is a crime...last I heard. That's why you can get in trouble for picknig up a protitute and never even exchange money etc. You intended to break the law and made substantial actions in that manner, not just a thought. Then I'd get in trouble for thinking how easy it'd be to go get hi-capacity magazines in Arizona and bring them here. It's not just a thought when you take actions to post the auction, deceptively, and acept bids from other states, and mislead in the item description. Also not mentioning that an FFL would need to be involved if you were out of state. I don't think it wise/legal to sell a firearm reciever without ever calling it a firearm! It is also bad buisness practice. I just don't get people that pick and choose which laws are worth obeying. We live in a country where bad laws can be overturned by the people, anarchy is not necessary. And honestly I didn't even care about the seller as much as a potential buyer who might not realize it's illegal and gets to go vacation at club-fed for his ignorance.