LoneStarWings
Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
- Messages
- 445
Last Sunday I took a defensive shotgun course at Civilian Arms Training (CATS) in Chino, California. Here is their website http://www.civilianarmstraining.com/ . The course costs $100 plus a $5 range fee and is 1 day long. Here is a video example of the course (no this was not my class) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIRmxMdcFrg
I flew in to Ontario, CA from Texas for the course (many found it amusing that someone would travel from Texas to California for the purpose of shooting), and had no trouble checking my Remington 870 in its pelican case with double master locks. CATS asked that we bring 250 rounds small game/birdshot, 25 slugs, and 5 buckshot. TSA only allows you to carry 11lbs of ammo, so I came with the slugs and buck, but had to buy the birdshot once I got to California. Here is a picture of the shotgun I used for the course:
Remington 870 Express Synthetic 7-shot, cylinder bore (still fairly new gun, about 200 rounds through it, aftermarket XS big dot front sight installed and receiver/mag tube parkerized by a local smith to remove rust):
Intro, Rules, and Equipment
I drove out to Prado Olympic Shooting Park and arrived about 15 minutes before 8 AM. The instructors inspected our weapons (they commented that mine was dirty, which I thought was odd since I only had 50 rounds through it since the last cleaning), then had us sign the standard legal releases. About 15 of us showed up for the course. After we sat down, the first thing we did was stand up and introduce ourselves. For several of the shooters, this was their 3rd or 4th time taking the course. Next we went over safety rules, then discussed use of the sling. Everyone needed a sling for this course, but it was only used as a means to stow the shotgun in between courses of fire. We discussed African vs. American carry. They stated that they preferred us to use African carry with the weapon slung behind our weak sides, muzzles pointed to the ground. After that, we talked about parts of the shotgun, different types of shotguns, as well as various accessories. The instructors recommended that we use both side saddle and butt stock carriers for the course, as well as some sort of system for storing more shells on your person (belt pouch, vest, but no sling carriers permitted). Unfortunately I only had a butt stock carrier. By this time we had killed about 90 minutes, and it was time to shoot.
Battle Zero
The first thing we did was obtain our "battle zero" by shooting paper targets at 50 yards from a bench rest. We shot a trio of 3 round groups, recording our patterns in a provided training pamphlet. I did hit the target with all 9 of my slugs, but my pattern was about 10", which was a bit more than they liked. I don't think the XS big dot is optimal for this type of distance, although I don't mean to deflect from my own lack of skill. Recoil was pretty punishing with my Federal “truball” 2&3/4” slugs.
Combat Reloads
Next, we discussed "combat reloads", which were something we used throughout the day. As a prelude, we went over the 4 steps to presenting the shotgun. To perform the combat reload, we held the rifle on the shoulder with 3 points of contact (cheek, strong shoulder, strong hand), then took our weak hands, removed a shell from a shell carrier (holding it between your index and pinky fingers), and dumped it directly into the chamber. Then we racked our slides forward. We also talked about "uploads" here, which is the same technique except you come under the shotgun with your weak hand and put the specified number of "uploads" into your magazine instead of dumping one in the chamber (always keeping the shotgun shouldered and muzzle on target).
Engaging Targets, Shooting on the Move, Clearing Area
Next we switched to birdshot, formed a line at 30 yards, presented, performed a combat load, and uploaded 4. We would get a "MOVE!" command, at which point we'd all walk forward in a line, and after a few paces would get the "FIRE!" command. Then we'd engage a steel target with all 5 rounds while continuing to move forward. The key here was to remember to look left and right to keep the line even without sweeping you neighbors with your muzzle. While still moving, at about 20 yards, we'd perform another combat reload, upload 2, and fire 3 more shots until reaching 10 yards. At this point, we'd move onto the target at the low ready, disarm the perp with the weak hand while keeping the muzzle on target, then go to "sool"(sp?) position, pivot left to clear the area, yell "CLEAR", make the gun safe, present it to our neighbors on the left and right, then sling the weapon. We did this drill about half a dozen times, mixing in prone and kneeling shots with slugs (stop'n'go).
Incapacitation Drills
Next we practiced incap situations. With one hand, we racked the slide and fired from the standing position with our weak hands behind our backs, then we did the same thing with the strong hands behind our backs. Next we took things a step further, laid down on our backs with legs spread (I forget what they called this position) and made one handed shots in a “crunch” type position with the barrel between our legs. This was very challenging for a first timer like me. We also practiced "blade shooting" in which your shoulders are perpendicular to the target, and you are "too tired to shoulder the rifle", so you fire shot from your midsection, once from your chest, and once from your shoulder, allowing the recoil to raise the shotgun higher after each shot.
Buck Shot Patterning
We patterned our buckshot at 5,10,15,20,&25 yards, making notes of our hits in our pamphlets. I used Federal Power-Shok 00 and all my pellets hit the target, even at 30 yards. My 5-20 yard shots were all within a 10” group.
Rolling Thunder
We all stood in a line at 20 yards, the first guy fired at consecutive adjacent steel targets until he emptied his mag or had a malfunction, shouted "GO!" at the next guy, he emptied, then yelled "GO!", until it got to the end of the line, then we'd go back to the first guy until we all ran out of ammo in our carriers (went through about 50 rounds in a few minutes this way, good equipment test).
Barricade Shooting
We set up 4x8 plywood barricades at 20 yards, combat reloaded then uploaded 3, backed away slowly, shot the outer right target, backed away more, shot the inner right target, moved back to the barricade, reloaded, and repeated for the left side, then came back to the barricade. Good intro to CQB type work.
Tactical Scenario
4 students started this drill in a "vehicle" (4 chairs) 50 yards from the targets, an "IED" went off (instructor yells BOOM!), students retrieved their unloaded shotguns from "trunk" (table behind our chairs), we spread out, used some barrels for cover, reloaded on the move, took shots from cover, gradually moved forward until reaching the barricades at 20 yards, uploaded a slug and took a "hostage shot" (silhouettes with a bad guy holding a hostage).
Conclusions
Before heading home, we each had a chance to stand up and give a brief speech about what we thought of the course. We covered a lot in this class, and I often felt outpaced because many of the students had already attended 2 or 3 times. By the end of the day I was feeling pretty good about the basic procedures, but unfortunately I was probably one of the worst shooters there because I could not operate my 870 properly. I would consistently get 2 or 3 shots off, rack the next shot, and get nothing when I'd pull the trigger. I'd rack the slide to "clear the malfunction", eject an unfired shell onto the ground, and then upload another one which would also fail to fire. I presume this was my own fault, failing to seat the slide all the way forward under time/drill pressure. I need to work on that. It was frustrating seeing guys pump out 2-3 rounds per second with similar equipment while I was fumbling around like a nincompoop.
Overall, I am glad I attended the course, because I realize I have a ton of work to do to become proficient with a shotgun. I really didn't realize how much I didn't know! I am looking forward to taking another class soon, be it this one or one from another establishment. Our instructors Tim & Chris were great, and they don't hold back and will give you some healthy scolding if you need it (I was a target a few times). I would recommend this course to anyone in the southwestern US, although in retrospect it's a bit short to travel across the country for like I did. Perhaps if you combined it with their pistol course on Saturday it'd be a fun weekend.
I think having a side saddle carrier would really help with "combat reloads" and uploads while keeping the shotgun shouldered. The butt stock carrier is also nice, but not as convenient for reloads. In addition, I need some kind of system that allows me to hold shells on my person in prone and kneeling positions, because the belt pouch I was using would dump everything on the ground if you weren't standing up.
Pros
Exposure to many concepts Quickly
Friendly Instructors & Students
Good SoCal Weather
Steel and Paper targets
Lots of shooting on the move, tactical scenarios
Instructor's Sons will pick up all your shells for $3
Open discussion about equipment
Trained on uses of different types of ammo and when to select what
Affordable Price
Cons
Very Fast pace, so you only get to do each drill a few times and probably
won't master it before you move on if this is your first time.
Oriented more toward Military and LEO's than home defense, a lot things like the IED scenario were a little impractical, but still a whole lot of fun.
If you get a large turnout, instructor: student ratio is low
Hard to hear range commands due to echoes and only one guy using a
megaphone
Overall, it was a positive experience. I hope this helps!
I flew in to Ontario, CA from Texas for the course (many found it amusing that someone would travel from Texas to California for the purpose of shooting), and had no trouble checking my Remington 870 in its pelican case with double master locks. CATS asked that we bring 250 rounds small game/birdshot, 25 slugs, and 5 buckshot. TSA only allows you to carry 11lbs of ammo, so I came with the slugs and buck, but had to buy the birdshot once I got to California. Here is a picture of the shotgun I used for the course:
Remington 870 Express Synthetic 7-shot, cylinder bore (still fairly new gun, about 200 rounds through it, aftermarket XS big dot front sight installed and receiver/mag tube parkerized by a local smith to remove rust):
Intro, Rules, and Equipment
I drove out to Prado Olympic Shooting Park and arrived about 15 minutes before 8 AM. The instructors inspected our weapons (they commented that mine was dirty, which I thought was odd since I only had 50 rounds through it since the last cleaning), then had us sign the standard legal releases. About 15 of us showed up for the course. After we sat down, the first thing we did was stand up and introduce ourselves. For several of the shooters, this was their 3rd or 4th time taking the course. Next we went over safety rules, then discussed use of the sling. Everyone needed a sling for this course, but it was only used as a means to stow the shotgun in between courses of fire. We discussed African vs. American carry. They stated that they preferred us to use African carry with the weapon slung behind our weak sides, muzzles pointed to the ground. After that, we talked about parts of the shotgun, different types of shotguns, as well as various accessories. The instructors recommended that we use both side saddle and butt stock carriers for the course, as well as some sort of system for storing more shells on your person (belt pouch, vest, but no sling carriers permitted). Unfortunately I only had a butt stock carrier. By this time we had killed about 90 minutes, and it was time to shoot.
Battle Zero
The first thing we did was obtain our "battle zero" by shooting paper targets at 50 yards from a bench rest. We shot a trio of 3 round groups, recording our patterns in a provided training pamphlet. I did hit the target with all 9 of my slugs, but my pattern was about 10", which was a bit more than they liked. I don't think the XS big dot is optimal for this type of distance, although I don't mean to deflect from my own lack of skill. Recoil was pretty punishing with my Federal “truball” 2&3/4” slugs.
Combat Reloads
Next, we discussed "combat reloads", which were something we used throughout the day. As a prelude, we went over the 4 steps to presenting the shotgun. To perform the combat reload, we held the rifle on the shoulder with 3 points of contact (cheek, strong shoulder, strong hand), then took our weak hands, removed a shell from a shell carrier (holding it between your index and pinky fingers), and dumped it directly into the chamber. Then we racked our slides forward. We also talked about "uploads" here, which is the same technique except you come under the shotgun with your weak hand and put the specified number of "uploads" into your magazine instead of dumping one in the chamber (always keeping the shotgun shouldered and muzzle on target).
Engaging Targets, Shooting on the Move, Clearing Area
Next we switched to birdshot, formed a line at 30 yards, presented, performed a combat load, and uploaded 4. We would get a "MOVE!" command, at which point we'd all walk forward in a line, and after a few paces would get the "FIRE!" command. Then we'd engage a steel target with all 5 rounds while continuing to move forward. The key here was to remember to look left and right to keep the line even without sweeping you neighbors with your muzzle. While still moving, at about 20 yards, we'd perform another combat reload, upload 2, and fire 3 more shots until reaching 10 yards. At this point, we'd move onto the target at the low ready, disarm the perp with the weak hand while keeping the muzzle on target, then go to "sool"(sp?) position, pivot left to clear the area, yell "CLEAR", make the gun safe, present it to our neighbors on the left and right, then sling the weapon. We did this drill about half a dozen times, mixing in prone and kneeling shots with slugs (stop'n'go).
Incapacitation Drills
Next we practiced incap situations. With one hand, we racked the slide and fired from the standing position with our weak hands behind our backs, then we did the same thing with the strong hands behind our backs. Next we took things a step further, laid down on our backs with legs spread (I forget what they called this position) and made one handed shots in a “crunch” type position with the barrel between our legs. This was very challenging for a first timer like me. We also practiced "blade shooting" in which your shoulders are perpendicular to the target, and you are "too tired to shoulder the rifle", so you fire shot from your midsection, once from your chest, and once from your shoulder, allowing the recoil to raise the shotgun higher after each shot.
Buck Shot Patterning
We patterned our buckshot at 5,10,15,20,&25 yards, making notes of our hits in our pamphlets. I used Federal Power-Shok 00 and all my pellets hit the target, even at 30 yards. My 5-20 yard shots were all within a 10” group.
Rolling Thunder
We all stood in a line at 20 yards, the first guy fired at consecutive adjacent steel targets until he emptied his mag or had a malfunction, shouted "GO!" at the next guy, he emptied, then yelled "GO!", until it got to the end of the line, then we'd go back to the first guy until we all ran out of ammo in our carriers (went through about 50 rounds in a few minutes this way, good equipment test).
Barricade Shooting
We set up 4x8 plywood barricades at 20 yards, combat reloaded then uploaded 3, backed away slowly, shot the outer right target, backed away more, shot the inner right target, moved back to the barricade, reloaded, and repeated for the left side, then came back to the barricade. Good intro to CQB type work.
Tactical Scenario
4 students started this drill in a "vehicle" (4 chairs) 50 yards from the targets, an "IED" went off (instructor yells BOOM!), students retrieved their unloaded shotguns from "trunk" (table behind our chairs), we spread out, used some barrels for cover, reloaded on the move, took shots from cover, gradually moved forward until reaching the barricades at 20 yards, uploaded a slug and took a "hostage shot" (silhouettes with a bad guy holding a hostage).
Conclusions
Before heading home, we each had a chance to stand up and give a brief speech about what we thought of the course. We covered a lot in this class, and I often felt outpaced because many of the students had already attended 2 or 3 times. By the end of the day I was feeling pretty good about the basic procedures, but unfortunately I was probably one of the worst shooters there because I could not operate my 870 properly. I would consistently get 2 or 3 shots off, rack the next shot, and get nothing when I'd pull the trigger. I'd rack the slide to "clear the malfunction", eject an unfired shell onto the ground, and then upload another one which would also fail to fire. I presume this was my own fault, failing to seat the slide all the way forward under time/drill pressure. I need to work on that. It was frustrating seeing guys pump out 2-3 rounds per second with similar equipment while I was fumbling around like a nincompoop.
Overall, I am glad I attended the course, because I realize I have a ton of work to do to become proficient with a shotgun. I really didn't realize how much I didn't know! I am looking forward to taking another class soon, be it this one or one from another establishment. Our instructors Tim & Chris were great, and they don't hold back and will give you some healthy scolding if you need it (I was a target a few times). I would recommend this course to anyone in the southwestern US, although in retrospect it's a bit short to travel across the country for like I did. Perhaps if you combined it with their pistol course on Saturday it'd be a fun weekend.
I think having a side saddle carrier would really help with "combat reloads" and uploads while keeping the shotgun shouldered. The butt stock carrier is also nice, but not as convenient for reloads. In addition, I need some kind of system that allows me to hold shells on my person in prone and kneeling positions, because the belt pouch I was using would dump everything on the ground if you weren't standing up.
Pros
Exposure to many concepts Quickly
Friendly Instructors & Students
Good SoCal Weather
Steel and Paper targets
Lots of shooting on the move, tactical scenarios
Instructor's Sons will pick up all your shells for $3
Open discussion about equipment
Trained on uses of different types of ammo and when to select what
Affordable Price
Cons
Very Fast pace, so you only get to do each drill a few times and probably
won't master it before you move on if this is your first time.
Oriented more toward Military and LEO's than home defense, a lot things like the IED scenario were a little impractical, but still a whole lot of fun.
If you get a large turnout, instructor: student ratio is low
Hard to hear range commands due to echoes and only one guy using a
megaphone
Overall, it was a positive experience. I hope this helps!
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