Revolver beginner: For autoloaders problem #1 is jamming, What about revolvers??

[saturno_v]

Hello Folks


I never owned a revolver but I fell in love with a S&W Mod. 29 in 44 Mag that a fellow shooter did let me try last week at the range.
So I'm very "green" when it comes to "cylinder" handguns
I'm flirting with the idea of trading my Tanfoglio Witness autoloader in 10 mm Auto with a revolver possibly in a big powerful "Wal-martized" cartridge such as the 44 Magnum. I love my Witness but ammo is too rare to find around here (and expensive), I cannot get it to work flawlessy without jamming and I do not want to spend the time and effort to fix it.
So my question is this: With Autoloaders jamming is one your main concern, What about revolvers?? What are the things I need to be careful about when buying one, especially used?? What problem could I face?? What weak or trouble spot I have to look for?? Do revolvers have a big potential headache like jamming for autoloaders??

Thank you in advance for your advice and suggestions!!

 

[klover]

ive yet to have a sig jamb on me.

n0t even once, IIRC

 

[Baba Louie]

Read Jim March's sticky post at top of Revolver Forum for things to look for when buying.

Revolver problems? Number of rounds and fast reloads... maybe. Deciding which one(s) to buy? Trying to keep from buying more than one? Fewer good mfgs? Choosing new or used or DA v SA? Deciding what caliber, frame size or barrel length to own?

Those are the issues I've got with the darned things.

Don't know if I'd call them problems tho.

 

[Old Fuff]

One advantage of a revolver is that it isn't ammunition dependent to function. While revolvers can jam, incidents are few and far between when compared to pistols. Also the power of the ammunition doesn’t matter, and you can use both light and heavy loads, with everything else in between. Where older revolvers required carrying the hammer down on an empty chamber, current ones for the most part have mechanical safeties that set and release themselves. Thus there are no levers to turn or buttons to push. Also in a confined space you don’t have brass flying around to distract you.

Last but not least, you don’t have to invest in a supply of magazines, where the quality of such may sometimes be suspect.

 

[saturno_v]

...in a few words.....Should I take the plunge???

I'm very interested in a S&W 29 6 inches barrel in 44 MAg..blued..how are they???
Someone told me to stay away from Taurus revolver...true?? If yes,why???

 

[saturno_v]

Wow VERY useful read that sticky...

Old Fuff

What do you mean revolvers Jams too??? You mean bullet getting stuck int he barrel with anemic loads?? Cases stuck in the cylinder?? What jamming in a revolver really means and what can be the causes???

Thanks!!!

 

[dfariswheel]

S&W is currently the highest quality production revolver made.
A Model 29 would be a VERY nice gun, as long as it's in good condition.

Taurus has a continuing history of quality problems.
They've come a long way in the last 15 years, but they still aren't up to American standards of quality.

"Jamming" in a revolver can be caused by:
A bullet being pulled by recoil and sticking out of the end of the cylinder preventing it from rotating.

Burned powder particles and grit can get trapped between the ejector and the rear of the cylinder and make the action sticky, or difficult to operate.

The action "can" get out of order and cause the action to stick or jam.

A dirty chamber can cause a cartridge to fail to seat fully. When the cylinder is closed, it can jam or stick.

There are probably some I can't think of off hand.

 

[RobertFBurnett]

Have always purchased my revolvers new and shot very few rounds thru em, but from what I hear endshake or timing issues are the bad things that can happen to revolvers. Both are addressed in the aforementioned "sticky" iirc.

Oh and whatever you do, don't start a Ruger vs. S&W .357 thread...1000 posts and you won't be anywhere closer than when when you started, although your Dog may have been insulted somewhere along the way.

"REVOLVERS! Wave of the Fututre!"

My $0.02
RFB

 

[Bendutro]

S&W sets the standard for elegant, reliable revolvers. When someone wants a trigger job, they're usually comparing to a S&W. Go for it.

And I've heard little bad about Taurus, I'd check it out but wouldn't hesitate if it were a nice piece.

 

[Oro]

I would take a step back and say your biggest issue with a revolver is learning to shoot it correctly. The grip is different - not such a big deal. But the trigger stroke is more demanding. It's not difficult to master or anything, but you need to dedicate to practicing it. A .38 is a great first revolver as it's mild. If you do go with a 29 (or the stainless 629 model), try shooting .44 specials in it for the majority of the time at first - it will be easier to master without inducting flinch from the big 44mag loads. Do lots of dry firing and watch your sites - it will let you see what your trigger stroke is doing.

Don't kid yourself - .44mag info is not inexpensive -it's pricey. Reloading for the .44mag is fun - you can build loads from light .44spcl "cowboy" kinda loads up to bear loads. I am not trying to dissuade you from the .44mag (I have a 3" 629 and love it), but use light loads to help build the skills.

As to reliability, yeah, Dfariswheel is right these are possible sources - but they are very, very rare. I have two autos that approach revolver reliability - but only approach it. And no way I can shoot them with a variety of loads from target puff to bear loads, like you can in a .44mag. That vast ammo range without sacrificing reliability is a major drawing point to magnum handguns. Don't ignore the .357, too.

 

[hoptob]

Saturno,

What are you planning to use it for? I mean, you are not carrying your 10mm Witness as CCW, right?

Mike

 

[Jim March]

Any revolver that is abnormally light for it's caliber might yank the yet-to-be-fired bullets far enough out of their shells to tie the gun up (poke out the front of the cylinder and halt rotation). Scandium, titanium, aluminum and magnesium framed guns are all susceptible. One common cure is to avoid using plain lead bullets as they're slick and more likely to yank.

In 38Spl and 357, some makers are doing rounds specifically meant to resist this "yanking" problem in ultra-light guns. Cor-Bon's DPX and Speer's "Short Barrel" specialty rounds are classic examples. They're also of only moderate power for their calibers, esp. in 357.

This isn't usually an issue in 44Mag except maybe the S&W Scandium...which is having reliability issues.

("Scandium" guns are really aluminum, with tiny traces of scandium (which at $6,000 a pound isn't in there in volume!). This alloy ain't as strong as steel and seems to flex more under stress.)

I do NOT recommend buying these ultra-light guns. My recommendation is that 38Spl guns need to be at least 15 ounces and 19+ is better, 357s should be at least 21oz and 26+ is better, 44Mag should run up past 35+ and even then, at the lower end a single action may be more comfortable to shoot than a double action.

You'll save a ton of money avoiding the ultra-lights (they're *expensive*). Put some of it into a good carry system and be done with it. I use a fanny pack to haul a Ruger New Vaquero 357 around .

(The only "ultralights" that might make sense is if Ruger takes their seriously over-strength GP100 and SP101 designs and does them in Titanium. A 19oz SP101 with very good grips starts to make sense, esp. as a six-shot 327 versus a 357.)

 

[Baba Louie]

I'm very interested in a S&W 29 6 inches barrel in 44 MAg..blued..how are they???

How are they? In a word... Sweetness ...in blued steel.

I wouldn't worry too much about one "jamming" on you provided you keep it clean and tight (some revolvers might have a tendency for the ejector rod to loosen over time and that can be... interesting to resolve). With my 29 (Classic DX, 6.5" bbl) I've learned to fire mostly in DA as the SA trigger is reeeeeal touchy from the factory. By that I mean when you cock the hammer all you really need to do is touch the trigger (sights on target of course) and "THINK" squeeze and as quick as Bob's Your Uncle, BOOM! Which I like personally. My newer 629 is not quite as touchy in that regard.

I've known several guys who shoot their 29's only in SA mode and if that were the case for me, I'd probably opt for a Ruger SBH.

Due to the rising cost of everything, but especially ammunition, you might want to think about reloading.

Also note that with the 29, word is, you don't want to shoot vast quantities of Full Goose Bozo insane loadings as you could in a Ruger wheelie. You can, of course, you just accelerate wear and tear a tad. (Some ammo mfgs do warn to restrict some of their loads to certain firearms. Buffalo Bore comes to mind.)

Don't overlook .41 mag or 10mm wheelguns either... not as many of them around and they are sort of "cultish", but since you've already got some 10mm lying around... (I know, I know, it ain't cheap fodder, but neither is .44mag nowadays).

saturno_... you know you want one. Get it! Let us see it! Shoot it! Smile a lot!

 

[woad_yurt]

Why a revolver?

Aside from one lone exception, they are universally more dependable than semis.

There's only one semi-auto that can approach a revolver's dependability, a Makarov. There are folks who have other semis that haven't jammed but you'll find that others have the same model pistol that does jam. But with a Mak, they're all good. But, you'll be limited to 9X18 caliber.

Now, with a revolver, every caliber just works all the time. No searching for the ammo "it likes." And, if you do happen to get a dud in a revolver, just pull the trigger again and it's on to the next round.

Usually a revolver failure is due to dirt or defect. If it's serviceable to begin with and if it's kept clean, you'll always be in business.

Plus, if you do reload, you don't need to go scrounge around in the dirt to retrieve your shells. Ever watch a guy pack up his $1000+ Kimber and then have to pick through everyone else's discards on the floor?

Finally, there's the look. I do think revolvers in general just look a lot cooler than semi-autos. Kinda like looking at a '49 Buick sitting next to a Camry. Revolvers have those nice lines while semis look a little too sterile to me. Don't get me wrong, I own semis, too. But, they just don't have the cahet of a decent revolver.

 

[MCgunner]

There's only one semi-auto that can approach a revolver's dependability, a Makarov. There are folks who have other semis that haven't jammed but you'll find that others have the same model pistol that does jam. But with a Mak, they're all good. But, you'll be limited to 9X18 caliber.

In your experience, maybe, but I have two Ruger P guns and a KT P11 that have never ever jammed in tens of thousands of rounds. My P90 will feed an empty case, done it to find out. There are many Glock shooters that would argue with you, too.

I think the main problem with the novice and DA wheel guns is learning to shoot DA, especially with snubbies. It takes time and practice, but it can be learned. Folks that can't shoot anything accurately, but a 1911 and are too lazy to learn any other platform are stuck with the SA platform I guess, many of which won't feed with anything, but ball, especially the smaller the platform gets. I'll take a 642 Smith any day and twice on Sunday over any officer's ACP, thank you very much, for CCW. Not only is it a lighter, more compact, and a safer weapon to pocket carry, it's also more reliable and can fire any bullet profile without fear of FTFs. It is likely a more accurate weapon, too. I've fired a lot of full sized 1911s, let alone a compact Officer's model, that wouldn't group as well as a run of the mill snubby .38. It don't matter how big the bullet is if you can't hit the target.

 

[22-rimfire]

The Smith Model 29 with a blued finish is pure soul. Even better is a Smith Model 57 in 41 mag.

Saturno; you need to get yourself a 22LR revolver too. With ammo prices being what they are, the 22 allows you to maintain a reasonable level of proficiency without shooting as much of the centerfire stuff. You really don't have to shoot double action often. I mostly do it for self protection practice or plinking; othewise, I'm shooting single action in my DA's.

I have not owned a Taurus. I read about just too many problems for me to buy one. I would buy one expecting to have problems versus buying a Colt or Smith and being shocked that there is a problem.

By the way, I find Glocks to be EXTREMELY reliable. Jams are a rarity.

 

[MCgunner]

I have not owned a Taurus. I read about just too many problems for me to buy one.

Mama used to tell me believe half of what ya see and none of what ya hear. This applies. I've got three very reliable Taurus revolvers and very accurate, I might add, more accurate than the Smiths I've owned and more accurate than the DA Rugers, though on par with the SA Rugers I've owned/do own, well, at least the 4" 66 which shoots better than I can shoot it. My M85SSUL shoots 3" 25 yard rested groups, has thousands of rounds though it, mostly standard pressure. My 3" 66 is accurate, 1.5" typical groups at 25 yards rested. Beats the Security Six I had and on par with the M19 and M10 Smiths.

Taurus revolvers are FANTASTIC bargains on the used market. You just need to know how to inspect 'em. Don't buy someone else's worn out high mileage gun, but even if you do, there's a lifetime warranty on it. I got my 4" 66 for $197 at a gun show, like new, tight, times perfect, and shoots flawlessly. My 3" gun was $180 a few years later. More finish wear, a little more loose, and the timing was off on one cylinder, lots of crane play. I bought it anyway knowing I could send it back if necessary, but found that someone had assembled it wrong, put the long screw that is supposed to hold the crane in place (forward most side plate screw) in the wrong hole. I put it back right and it's perfect, no crane play, perfectly timed, and only a smidgen of end shake (about .001"). It's an old gun that has been fired enough to wear the "checkering" flat on the back of the Pachmayr gripper it came with, lots of high power rounds apparently judging from grip wear, but it still puts 'em into 1.5" off the bench. I figure the guy that used to own this gun and put it together wrong is probably on one of the boards now bashing Taurus as a POS.

Old worn K frame Smiths go for upwards of 400 and up down here. Taurus is a legit bargain if you don't read the gun boards and know what you're lookin' at. I bought my M85 new and have carried it for 12 years now, fired probably 6 or 7K rounds through it and seen no appreciable wear other than a bit of holster wear.

The more the gun board experts bash Taurus, the better will be the bargains at the gun shows, so I guess I can't complain.

 

[Virginian]

I am not at all sure I buy that "S&W is the best quality revolver" line. I have seen about as many problems/issues with new Smiths as with several others.
I agree that a Smith has a different feel/touch, but not everyone likes exactly the same things. Guns are like women, but cheaper.

 

[MCgunner]

Guns are like women, but cheaper.

Well, they don't nag. That's a plus.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

In a high-powered cartridge like the .44 Magnum, the question is somewhat moot - a revolver is your only practical choice. How many .44 Magnum autoloaders are there? I suppose there is the Desert Eagle, but this is mostly a curiosity, not as accurate or reliable as the revolver, quite costly and functions only with full-power loads using jacketed bullets. The revolver can be loaded with anything that fits in the chambers.

My only real problem with revolvers, especially small-frame ones, is that they are harder for me to shoot well. The DA trigger stroke - which not only raises and drops the hammer but also turns the cylinder - takes more work to master. But shooting with this revolver is more likely to be done in single-action and slow fire anyway. Also remember that they are not immune to any kind of malfunction. In fact, if you do have one, it is more often than not a true jam - i.e., the gun is out of action until it can be taken away and worked on with tools, unlike the feeding cycle stoppage in an auto which can be cleared with just your hands. Granted, this only rarely happens ... but so do stoppages in a good autoloader with good ammunition.

 

[Funderb]

I have a .357 S&W.
it's fun stuff.
S&W is probably the best made.

 

[Hawk]

More reliable? Did anybody mention the S&W extractor rod unscrewing itself yet?

Also, while revolvers will tolerate a wider range of loads it's not exactly infinite. I decided to burn a pile of "primer only" cases in .41 mag to get rid of some dubious primers. Locked up the cylinder after every "shot". I'd suspect an extremely light load would act similarly.

They blow up pretty much like semis do with overly hot loads. In fact, my personal guess is that they probably blow up a whole lot more. This is due to the number of people that post "just pull the trigger again" with no reference to checking for big trouble in River City. One assumes many revolver folks have never had a squib.

Revolvers, especially those found on the (ab)used market will sometimes exhibit light strike failures.

An advantage of revolvers that I'm particularly fond of is the fact that one needn't chase brass. I'd guess the "yang" to this "yin" is that the liklihood of getting a squib is likely increased.

Reliability, based on "time out of action", probably favors the semi. When the revolver wraps itself around the axle it's generally out of action until the manual and tools come out.

Many, if not most, advantages cited for revolvers carry a concurrent disadvantage. If there were nothing but advantages, there would be no semis. As example, the price for less frequent jams is more difficult to clear jams. Simplicity of operation is counterbalanced by complexity of lockwork - nobody I know opens up a Python and dumps the parts in a pie plate and gets away with it as they might with a 1911.

 

[MCgunner]

I can't say that I've ever had a revolver problem. Guess I'm lucky. But, then, if I get a jammamatic, and they're harder to spot on the display at the gun shop than a revolver with problems, I don't carry it. An auto that is proven to me, I am confident in carrying. I don't sweat over malfunctions, personally. A clean, proven gun with fresh quality ammo will work. Now, you can MAKE some autos malfunction by limp wristing or other poor technique. Learn to shoot before you carry.

In a high-powered cartridge like the .44 Magnum, the question is somewhat moot - a revolver is your only practical choice. How many .44 Magnum autoloaders are there?

Yeah, major advantage and why I prefer revolvers for ANY outdoor carry. You can't match the power and accuracy of a magnum revolver with any autoloader that is comparable in weight and size. Nothing like a nice, accurate K frame 4" for backpacking in the mountains or even a .44 mag Mountain Gun is only 40 ounces or so, about that of a 1911 and MUCH more effective.

Purely for hunting, though, I'm sorta partial to my Contender in .30-30 Winchester over any .44 mag. Thing's just as powerful and extremely accurate. It doesn't drop below 1000 ft lbs till nearly 200 yards, which is sorta beyond my field shooting accuracy range anyway. At 100 yards, it's the hammer of Thor on deer/hog sized game. If I wanted more, I could upgrade to the .45/70, I guess, or get an Encore.

 

[RyanM]

The #1 cause of "jams" in a revolver is probably short-stroking the trigger, especially when trying to shoot rapidly.

Revolvers are sensitive to operator error just as autos are.

 

[spwenger]

The Biggest Source...

...of mechanical malfunctions on double-action revolvers is unburned powder granules under the extractor star. If you are firing more than a few cylinders worth of rounds at a time, you should keep a used toothbrush (or equivalent) handy to brush clean the underside of the extractor star and the mating surface of the cylinder periodically.

Yes, the outer sleeve of the ejector rod on a S&W revolver can shoot loose, causing essentially the same problems as grit under the extractor star (heavier trigger stroke due to resistance to rotation of the cylinder and difficulty opening the action). This is not primarily a matter of the older right-handed thread vesus the newer left-handed thread. A screw is a wedge wrapped around a cylinder and it is a function of momentum, regardless of which way the thread twists. The problem is enhanced with the use of heavy loads. Be prepared for it to occur. When it does, disassemble the unit, degrease the threads and apply some Loc-Tite intended for small-diameter screws that may need to be unscrewed at a later time, then reassemble. It is best to place at least two empty cases in the chamber when unscreweing and re-screwing these parts.

Another part that is likely to shoot loose is the nut that looks like a screw head, in the center of the thumbpiece (cylinder release.) In general, it is wise to check all your screws during any serious cleaninig. I once had a S&W revolver I lent to a student experience ignition failures during a course. I finally discovered that the strain screw, which maintains the tension on the main spring, had worked loose and I was unaware of it because its location on the front strap was covered by the aftermarket grip stocks.