Riding the slide forward

[Matthew Courtney]

I fully understand how dropping the slide on an empty chamber can accelerate wear on some pistols. The fact that it is an issue is real, and I appreciate why many firearms enthusiasts eschew the behavior.

What escapes me is why those who eschew one behavior with potential negative outcomes often promote another bad behavior with potentially catestrophic outcomes - riding the slide forward. The habit of occasionally riding the slide forward when running the slide can translate into doing it at inopportune times, or hesitating before running the slide to determine which way of doing it is more appropriate to the circumstance, either of which could be fatal in a fight.

Can we agree that those informed enthusiats who feel passionately about both of the major issues here can recommend using snap caps or APD's so that neither riding the slide forward or dropping it on an empty chamber are things we push on those who seek good information and trust us to give it to them?

 

[Ben86]

When I compare how many times I ride the slide forward on an empty chamber vs how many times I reload by hitting the slide release or sling shot the slide I am not worried. I am confident that I will do what I practiced most.

Besides riding the slide forward requires calm patience, and intense dexterity and concentration, things in short supply in a bad situation. I can't see myself doing that.

 

[withdrawn34]

Couldn't you just ride the slide when closing on an empty chamber, and just slingshot (or release for those who like snapping down the slide release) when loading the chamber? I may be misunderstanding your post, but I just use two different MOs depending on the situation.

 

[BCRider]

Well, there's no doubt that some habits can be bad in a real fight. A good example of that is the report about that big gunfight between a group of bad guys and a bunch of FBI officers. FBI agents were found dead with empty brass and, I believe, speedloaders in their pockets and hands because of their ingrained practice of pocketing the brass at the practice range to avoid making a mess or having to clean it up.

And I'd be willing to bet that at least a few of them that were wounded were standing out in plain site shooting back just like they would have been when confronting a paper target back at the range instead of shooting from cover or at least a crouch to minimize the target offered to any incoming rounds.

How best to avoid that? I'd say a mixture of self defense tactics courses and joining in and seriously shooting in IDPA matches in order to ingrain the concept of better use of cover and how/when to reload. Granted such things are not perfect since the paper and steel doesn't shoot back. But short of taking up sides and shooting simunition at each other it's the best you can do. And it's WORLD'S better than standing still at a range bench and shooting from a comfortable and exposed position. During such courses or matches you sure don't train yourself to ride the slide ahead. And while it's hardly going to create the surge of adrenaline that being shot at would provide it's at least going to cause SOME concern over how the clock and scoring is going so you'll get at least SOME practice shooting under pressure.

Oddly enough teaching yourself to perform under pressure can also be provided by taking up playing paintball with the kids or friends. Again it's not the same as being shot at for real but you'd be amazed at how much "concern" is generated over the possiblility of being stung badly. Combined with a few other actual firearms courses and firearms competition all told it's about as close as you can get to teaching yourself to operate under pressure without lead flying your way. If you don't think that's the case I welcome you to get some buddys together and sign up for a day of woodsballing.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

either of which could be fatal in a fight

In a combative context, how could one realistically train to clear doublefeeds? Or a one-shot wonder (unseated magazine)?

 

[BCRider]

In a combative context, how could one realistically train to clear doublefeeds? Or a one-shot wonder (unseated magazine)?

Again, this comes up in competition during IPSC and IDPA courses of fire often enough to get one tuned into dealing with and correcting their mistakes. I believe that some training courses also work with you on FTF procedures. Or you can work within a group of shooting buddys to put snap caps into magazines to surprise the shooter and gain practice with clearning non firing rounds. But I'd suggest that the best way it to get involved in some form of competition shooting where such things happen due to stress and other unplanned reasons on a regular enough basis that you get enough unexpected practice.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

"In a combative context, how could one realistically train to clear doublefeeds? Or a one-shot wonder (unseated magazine)?"

Shawn, I do not understand your question because I have never seen a method or drill for doing either of these that involved riding the slide forward. Would you please clarify?

 

[Vasconic]

In a combative context, how could one realistically train to clear doublefeeds? Or a one-shot wonder (unseated magazine)?

Magpul Dynamics Dynamic handgun video has a section on running different FTF drills. Before each drill they would set their gun up with that particular malfunction and then run the drill in real time clearing malfunction and then firing a couple shots. It was very informative and looks easy to replicate out on a range.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Here is an NSSF video featuring the Rangemaster from Gunsite demonstrating the "one-shot wonder" clearing drill that I prefer to teach, tap, roll, rack, assess:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhy_NJ1cdNY&feature=related

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Shawn, I do not understand your question because I have never seen a method or drill for doing either of these that involved riding the slide forward. Would you please clarify?

Me neither. Perhaps I should have also quoted your preceding comment:

The habit of occasionally riding the slide forward when running the slide can translate into doing it at inopportune times, or hesitating before running the slide to determine which way of doing it is more appropriate to the circumstance...

Most people will want to train the way they intend to fight. When training to quickly clear a doublefeed they will energetically rack the slide and in so doing it will close on an empty chamber. When training to clear an unseated magazine the slide will cycle after the first shot is fired and it will close on an empy chamber.

Here is an NSSF video featuring the Rangemaster from Gunsite demonstrating the "one-shot wonder" clearing drill that I prefer to teach, tap, roll, rack, assess:

It's almost identical to my process. I "roll & rack" simultaneously to use both centifugal force and gravity to help clear the action. My process is: Tap, Roll & Rack. Recover.