rifle for my son

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moxie said:
If 123 grain bullets are light for deer, tell that to the thousands of deer and black bear taken every year with 100 gr. .243s.

The .243 is a good option too.

The Savage Axis can be had in either .243 or 7.62x39. Both good choices for a bit over $300. Used probably less.
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I'll second that,I took a nice ten point last season with an 85 gr. HP at 200 yds. DRT !!
 
I'll second that,I took a nice ten point last season with an 85 gr. HP at 200 yds. DRT !!
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You shot an 85 grain bullet out of a 7.62x39? Really?

In a 30 cal firearm, a 123 grain bullet can and will kill game. But you'd have a hard time arguing that it's the optimum weight.
 
Yall quit thinking of it in terms of weight, an 85gr .243 cal has adequate sectional density (.206 SD) to penetrate while a 85gr 30 cal would have too little weight for it's frontal area. Recommended minimum SD for deer hunting is around .200 a 123gr .311 cal is .182 SD I am not saying that it is inadequate given a good shot angle and/or smaller deer but understand you are pushing it just a bit and a 150gr is much better suited to the task given similar bullet construction.
I like a little extra penetration myself because not all shots are perfect broadsides, my primary hunting loads are a 120gr 6.5mm (.246 SD) and a 165gr 30 cal (.248 SD) neither has ever had any trouble going through and through even on some serious off angle shots.
 
denton said:
You shot an 85 grain bullet out of a 7.62x39? Really?

In a 30 cal firearm, a 123 grain bullet can and will kill game. But you'd have a hard time arguing that it's the optimum weight.
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I didn't say that.I was referring to moxie's reference to the 243 !!!! Maybe I should have said,85 gr. 243 huh?
 
And don't forget the BC. The short/fatter 123 slug sheds velocity much faster that say a 100gr 243. If your going to use a single shot/bolt action a 30-30 with pointed bulets would be versatile and handle heavier pointed bullets.
 
Yall quit thinking of it in terms of weight, an 85gr .243 cal has adequate sectional density (.206 SD) to penetrate while a 85gr 30 cal would have too little weight for it's frontal area. Recommended minimum SD for deer hunting is around .200 a 123gr .311 cal is .182 SD I am not saying that it is inadequate given a good shot angle and/or smaller deer but understand you are pushing it just a bit and a 150gr is much better suited to the task given similar bullet construction.
I like a little extra penetration myself because not all shots are perfect broadsides, my primary hunting loads are a 120gr 6.5mm (.246 SD) and a 165gr 30 cal (.248 SD) neither has ever had any trouble going through and through even on some serious off angle shots.
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Exactly. Though a 180 grain 30 cal bullet will usually survive an encounter with a large bone, and go on to do its job.

And don't forget the BC. The short/fatter 123 slug sheds velocity much faster that say a 100gr 243. If your going to use a single shot/bolt action a 30-30 with pointed bulets would be versatile and handle heavier pointed bullets.
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Also spot on.

I didn't say that.I was referring to moxie's reference to the 243 !!!! Maybe I should have said,85 gr. 243 huh?
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I believe the trail goes back to my assertion that a 123 grain bullet from a 30 cal rifle was on the light side.
 
I'd really look to pistol calibers for the single shot rifle. The .357 mag will get the job done out to 100 yards out of a rifle and the .44mag surely will. You can get .38spl or .44spl for cheap plinking. If you are a reloader the .500s&w could be an option or any of the big bores like it (i.e. .460s&w, .480 Ruger etc) I know they are nasty rounds out of a Revolver but in their rifle versions rounds like .500 are tame enough for kiddos to shoot, they are after all just pistol calibers. Also the heavy pistol calibers out of a rifle can give you the same performance as the 30-30 with less recoil.
 
CountryUgly said:
I'd really look to pistol calibers for the single shot rifle. The .357 mag will get the job done out to 100 yards out of a rifle and the .44mag surely will. You can get .38spl or .44spl for cheap plinking. If you are a reloader the .500s&w could be an option or any of the big bores like it (i.e. .460s&w, .480 Ruger etc) I know they are nasty rounds out of a Revolver but in their rifle versions rounds like .500 are tame enough for kiddos to shoot, they are after all just pistol calibers. Also the heavy pistol calibers out of a rifle can give you the same performance as the 30-30 with less recoil.
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my local dunham's never runs out of 7.62x39. that's why it's #1 on my list.
 
I just did some looking around and apparently Rossi made a single shot in 7.62x39. There is one on armslist in South Bend IN right now
 
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CZ 527 carbine

They seem to be rare for some reason but I have seen used CZ 527 carbine rifles go for $300-$400. You can get a single shot adapter from James Calhoon taht fits the CZ 527.
 
Get him a 30-30. It will last his whole life. As others said, just load 1 round at a time. One day your son will be older and be able to handle 6-7 rounds in tube.
 
I love rifles and playing with different calibers, but I was completely underwelmed with the 7.62x39 out of a bolt gun. I had a CZ and a Ruger. They both shot good ammo very well, but for that price, I would just rather use a .223 or a .243. The cheaper stuff shot OK, but no where near making the rifles interesting. I would really look at a .223, .30-30, or a .243. The balistics of the 7.62x39 really don't call for a bolt gun. I guess I could see the fun in a H&R Handi-rifle. The other thing to consider is the hard primers on the military stuff. I have heard that Handi's have a hard time shooting them. Not trying to ruin your parade, but just some things I have observed.

If your shooting at deer in 7.62x39 range, then a good heavier .223 should work as well. I have had good luck with Winchester 62 grain Power Points and the Speer 70 grain SP.

Good luck with which ever way you go..

Matt
 
"If your shooting at deer in 7.62x39 range, then a good heavier .223 should work as well. I have had good luck with Winchester 62 grain Power Points and the Speer 70 grain SP."

.223 ammo is pretty scarce around me also.
 
I am the odd duck - I reload 7.62x39mm AND I cast for it. I haven't used either of them to take deer yet,

004.jpg

I would think that either one would do the job. I have a number of bullet choices to try, including Hornady 123gr Spire Point and the V-Max 123 grain as well, (not shown, as well as the excellent Berry's plated 125 grain slug).
In hard cast slugs, I can go up to 160 grains,

currenthandloads762x39.jpg

I think that might do a number on various game animals, and yes, I can use that slug in the gas gun with one alloy without leading. ;)
Those who poo-poo the idea of handloading or casting for this caliber are the ones who aren't out shooting when I am...they're hoarding ammo, while I just go make more. ;)

I'd love to suggest the CZ 527M, shown here, as the perfect rifle for your son,

527Mlighter.jpg

But the cost exceeds your budget, and they are very hard to find right now. Mine does alright, with handloads

527at200yardstarget.jpg

if you can afford it, I highly recommend it. In the meantime, the Handi Rifle would probably be exactly what you're looking for.
 
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