Rifle I'm lusting over or optic I'm lusting over?

[kb308]

Ok guys; long time lurker, many years actually, few if any poster.
Here's the deal. I ran across two AR-180s in excellent condition (old style with folding stock, etc...). They are quite expensive. As in ~$1,700.
With that being said, I have one Windham Weaponry AR15 M4 style, a WASR-10 to be upgraded later (I've owned Arsenals in the past and LOVED them). I have an Armalite M4 style with a scope on layaway.

On a side note, I've got a Walther PPX (Can't recommend enough) and a S&W snubby .38spc+P.

Here's my predicament. I have been wanting an ACOG for my Windham (or maybe take the scope off of the Armalite) and use that as primary optic. I prefer a green chevron or horseshoe @ 4x.

I can get the AR-180 put on layaway TODAY, and save up for the ACOG later. On the other hand, maybe with all of the high quality things on the market, should I bypass the AR-180 and get the ACOG, and get a nice rifle later?

Sorry for long post, and I'm just asking wondering your opinions guys. Hopefully I won't get geflammt

Thanks guys.

 

[Sav .250]

Want and need! That should help..................

 

[kb308]

Haha, yeah, I agree Sav .250, but I really don't "need" either. I just want both
What would you guys do in this situation? What are your thoughts?

 

[kb308]

I guess another way to ask it is: Should I get the ACOG and later purchase something like a SCAR 17, ACR, or any other really nice rifle of the sort, or get the AR-180 while the getting is good? I just feel that there may not be many floating around in the next few years, but I'm just not sure exactly how common they are. Also, do they pale in comparison to the SCAR, ACR, etc...?

 

[Gordon]

Careful on AR 180s ! They are NO SCAR, Tabor or HK or Sig or other modern gun, there were reliability problems with some of them and the scope mounting systems are horrible. I wanted and got one in the 1980 and mine was a Sterling and it was very clunky FWIW and I soon sold it off .

 

[kb308]

Thanks for the reply Gordon. Very useful information. Speaking of Sig, I have been wanting one of those Sig 556 rifles, and even more, an FN FNC
I just hope one is available when I can get one. If there was one at the fun-store, I'd have put it on layaway yesteryear.

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

Do your research, and find out if the 180's you are looking at is the right era. then go ahead and get it. They don't grow on trees, and even though it isn't a COD gun, it can be an interesting part of your collection.

 

[HankB]

Careful on AR 180s ! They are NO SCAR, Tabor or HK or Sig or other modern gun, there were reliability problems with some of them and the scope mounting systems are horrible. I wanted and got one in the 1980 and mine was a Sterling and it was very clunky FWIW and I soon sold it off .

A couple of decades ago I saw a guy at the range with an Armalite AR-180 and it was unreliable. A sample of "1" isn't enough to condemn an entire production run, but when that "1" is a jammamatic it doesn't instill confidence, either.

If you're a collector that's one thing, but if you're a shooter - for $1700 you can get a good AR-pattern rifle.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

There's a reason AR-180s never saw widespread adoption-they sucked. Sure-they're a neat oddity, some of em work great and are cool/different, but for $1700? You could get a far more modern/accurate/reliable and useful rifle for that money. The cool feeling felt from the different nature of an AR 180 will wear off quickly, leaving you with a rifle that performs worse than your Windham but costs far more. For the same amount, you can get a rifle with the same cool factor that will perform even better than the Windham.

 

[chris in va]

Just curious, what does the ACOG do that another similar optic at 1/3 the price can't when shooting at the range?

 

[readyeddy]

Get the rifle.

The ACOG is good too, but eventually the technology will go stale and you'll want the next great gizmo.

The rifle is a durable piece of history and its value will likely go up. And online reviews say it's a good shooter. You buy it, take it to the range, send maybe a thousand rounds down range, put it back in the safe, forget about it for about 15 years, and then find out it's worth maybe triple what you paid. Not bad eh?

 

[bannockburn]

kb308

Back in the day the word was the AR 180s built by Armalite in Costa Mesa, CA and the ones built by Howa in Japan were supposedly the better rifles to get. When I was looking for one all I could find were those made by Sterling in England. Quality was so-so with below average fit and finish, low-grade plastic furniture, and a less than solid lock-up with the folding stock. Was also looking at a Colt SP1 Sporter at the same price as the AR180 and went with the Colt instead. Glad I did.

 

[Hardtarget]

If the optic will (to YOU) make the rifle you already have work better for you then that would be a good way to go. The good, new rifle, can come later.

In the end, it is your money. Go for it! You'll have a blast!

Mark

 

[kb308]

Well, I repeatedly read everyone's replies and gave them all
Good consideration. I decided to pass on the AR-180, and finish
Paying for my scoped Armalite M4 on layaway for now, then get my long desired
ACOG. I really do appreciate everybody's responses, and may post here more often .
I think that I'll save up and get the ACOG on eBay, because I've been noticing them
there for about half price. I do understand that they are used, but if they're as great
as I've seen in the past, and have been told, maybe I'll just have to pay for a tritium
insert replacement, and go have fun! Then.... For the next toys....

 

[kb308]

BTW, they turned out to be Japanese Howas, supposedly good ones.

 

[Driftertank]

IMO, ACOGs are kinda overrated. I will admit that they are hell-for-stout. Glass quality is good, but not amazing, and the self-illumination is nice. The reticles are relatively idiot-proof...if you use mil spec ammo, and your accuracy requirement is minute-of-torso.

They are a compromise intended to enhance effectiveness at medium range for soldiers, and survive field-level abuse by said soldiers.

As a civilian, you have a lot more options in ammunition and equipment than what's issued to frontline troops. I won't say "don't buy an Acog," but I will say, look into some of the offerings by Leupold, Vortex, Burris, SWFA, etc., and consider your realistic needs and budget, and if none of the other options meet your needs, THEN by all means, go Acog.

And as for AR-180s....meh. Whatever floats your boat. I like rugged and reliable in my guns.

 

[kb308]

I'm with you on liking rugged and reliable in my rifles, as well as any gun I purchase. That's why I really like the AKs. I'm prior-service Army myself, but still want that assistance in medium range accuracy, so that's one reason I do want the ACOG. I want rugged optics as well as rugged weapons, but I would be open to exploring other options I suppose.

My rifles are mostly for fun, but I certainly do enjoy the fact that they are there for protection should a Katrina-esque situation occur. Otherwise my Walther PPX and other smaller stuff will do for defense. Thanks for the input, Uright minute of torso at medium-range is about what I'm looking for I guess. However on my other AR on my put a more precise scope.

 

[kb308]

Speaking of rugged and reliable , after I get the ACOG and the Armalite M4, would the Tavor or Sig556 generally be more rugged and reliable? I know I could get many varied responses but I have pretty much no experience with either rifle . I've shot the Sig556 just once, and haven't shot the Tavor yet.

 

[Driftertank]

My girlfriend has a Sig 556 (with an ACOG, lol) and I don't have anything particularly bad to say about it. She very rarely cleans it - rather to my annoyance - and yet I've never seen it malfunction. Shoots the handload that I worked up for my AR into about 1moa when cold. Strings a little when hot. I've heard some people run into issues with them, but we haven't had any. If you reload, they do ding up the brass a bit, but we put one of the little rubber circles you can get for furniture legs behind the port and they end up better now.

Never played with a tavor. They look cool on TV, but no idea about real life. Handled one once. Better ergos than the FS2000. Little awkward in the sighting plane, to me at least. Not bad though.