Rifle Suggestions Please

[redneck2]

the SKS is cheap to shoot and turns money into noise in a hurry. Not particularly accurate but very tough. Kills paper and cans as quick as anything else. IMO not much of a hunting rifle (accuracy wise). Certainly not a long range rifle. About the same power (or maybe a little less) than a .30-30

If you're looking for a hunting caliber and really want to shoot much, consider reloading. Costs maybe 1/4th of factory ammo, can be more accurate, and makes it easier to practice

You should be able to find a decent used 30-06 if that's what fits the bill

 

[mrhuckins]

Redneck32

I love your signature:

The jerk that runs my anger management class really ticks me off!!

Is that your invention? If not, where did that come from?

Additionally, can I save money buying reloading equipment used off of ebay? Or is it best to buy new?

$$$ for all the extras are starting to stack up quickly here.......

 

[ReadyontheRight]

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_FrontierRifle.htm

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/News-11-11-2004E.html

If I were to get just one "knocking around in the woods" hunting rifle. I think I would check out the new Ruger Frontier rifle in .308. It's easy to handle, has a controlled round feed and allows for lots of scope-mounting configurations.

One well-made bolt action to check out is the CZ 550. Set trigger, Mauser action and controlled round feed.

On the cheaper side, you can get a U.S. made Mossberg bolt-action at Wal-Mart for $244.

Remember that you want to spend some $$$ on a good scope too. Usually at least $200 for a good scope. I suggest Leupold.

Good luck!

 

[mrhuckins]

I'm pretty sure I've made my choice. I have a LEO friend, who is also my FFL and he can get me (what I think) a really good deal on a .30-06 Savage. Bolt action, composite stock, blued barrel, with sling, and acu-trigger. I think a scope might come with it also, all brand new for 418.36. I think thats a good deal, even if the scope doesn't come with it. What do you guys think, and who wants to go to the range with me to break that baby in?

 

[redneck2]

Stole that line off a tee shirt I saw

You can get single stage reloaders pretty cheap. Look thru the reloading forum here for ideas. The "What do I need to start reloading" has been beat around lots of times. You can get started for less than $100, and that won't usually buy a lot or rounds for a high power rifle, but then again 30-06 is sometimes available mil-surp cheap.

Just do yourself a favor and get a good (fogproof/waterproof) scopewith Butler Creek caps. The Savage should be great

 

[mrhuckins]

Well, I'm hoping that the Savage will show up soon. I'm dying to go shoot it.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Savage 110/10 series rifles are great values, I think you will be pleased with it. The AccuTrigger seems to be a good idea from what I have read about it, I haven't used one yet myself. Have fun with it, and stay safe-

lpl/nc

 

[IndianaBoy]

Berek, not to be nit-picky, but no cartridge short of artillery has a 4 mile effective range. Of course a bullet from your 300 WSM may travel 4 miles if shot at a 45 degree angle into the air. I only mention it because someone who is less knowledgeable about firearms may see '4 mile effective range' and assume that with a 300 WSM you can shoot deer at a range of 4 miles.

Cheers and good shooting.

 

[mrhuckins]

I only mention it because someone who is less knowledgeable about firearms may see '4 mile effective range' and assume that with a 300 WSM you can shoot deer at a range of 4 miles.

I also was under the impression that the 'effective range' of a weapon was the range at which it could be fired effectivly. IE, at the ammount of distance at which a weapon could accurately and consistantly hit a man sized shilouette.


The http://www.army-technology.com website defines Maximum Effective Range as:

"Maximum Effective Range
Maximum effective range is the maximum range within which a weapon is effective against its intended target."

With a Shoulder fired rifle, I'm guessing that would mean man or deer sized target, or perhaps some bigger game. If you can even hit an elephant at 4 miles with this rifle and kill it, thats very impressive.

 

[Berek]

When I was in the military, "effective range" was the range in which the projectile was still lethal. The maximum range of the .300WSM has been reported to be 6 miles. At 4 miles, the kinetic energy is still greater than that of some handguns at 25 yards.

Maybe I should have used "lethal range" instead, but when it came to accuracy, it was simply "accurate range".

Bottom line, at 4 miles, there is enough punch to drop a deer. I just wouldn't count on accuracy let alone consistant accuracy.

Berek

 

[mrhuckins]

No matter how you look at it, thats one pretty amazing weapon.

 

[Dread Pirate 257 Roberts]

Savage 11F in 7mm-08 or .308.

 

[IndianaBoy]

lets be realistic

I don't want to hijack a post in which a member is looking for good solid info.... But Berek, you are seriously mistaken about the capabilities of the 300 WSM cartridge.

Name: .308 Cal, Hornady #30711 BTHP Mat, 180 grn
Ballistic Coeff: 0.530
Bullet Weight: 180
Velocity: 3000
Target Distance: 1000
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3000 fps 3597 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in

100 yds 27.51 in 2827 fps 3194 fpe 0.103 sec 2.00 in -0.09 in 0.51 in

200 yds 52.14 in 2661 fps 2829 fpe 0.213 sec 8.39 in 1.60 in 2.23 in

300 yds 71.91 in 2500 fps 2498 fpe 0.329 sec 19.64 in 4.65 in 5.04 in

400 yds 86.13 in 2345 fps 2198 fpe 0.452 sec 36.44 in 9.34 in 9.21 in

500 yds 93.88 in 2196 fps 1928 fpe 0.585 sec 59.71 in 16.04 in 14.98 in

600 yds 94.50 in 2052 fps 1683 fpe 0.726 sec 90.10 in 25.04 in 22.25 in

700 yds 87.22 in 1913 fps 1463 fpe 0.877 sec 128.40 in 36.74 in 31.07 in

800 yds 69.89 in 1782 fps 1268 fpe 1.039 sec 176.74 in 51.92 in 42.15 in


This is the first 800 yards data for a maximum load (from Lee Reloading Manual) using a match grade target bullet with a better Ballistic Coefficient than any hunting bullet I could find. The energy drops off precipitously after 800 yards(for some reason Point Blank Ballistic Calculator wont printout beyond 800 yards for me.) The kinetic energy at 1000 yards is 946 foot pounds and dropping. That is at 1000 yards which is approximately 1/4 of a mile and is 1/16 of the distance at which you said it would kill a deer. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but that just isn't true. The bullet has lost 2/3 of it's energy already over a distance of less than 1/16 of the distance to which you say it is lethal. You can't overcome air resistance.

The 300 WSM is an impressive performer, not magic.

Edit: I can't find a ballistics calculator which will allow me to go beyond 1000 yards. And I don't have the patience to plot data and determine the equation for energy loss vs. distance based on the point blank data I have. So if anyone knows of a utility with which I can calculate a farther range, let me know.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Btw

Mr Huckins,

For a handy, accurate and dependable deer rifle. You can't go wrong with a Savage in 270, 308 or 30-06. My friend's 30-06 Savage will outshoot my Winchester, or maybe he is just a better shot than me. Bolt action is definitely the way to go.

 

[jefnvk]

Made a good choice. For hunting, bolt guns are better (any manually operated guns are better) because there is less to break. .30-'06 is probably the most common round in America, so you can't go wrong for ammo availability.

Same for the scope. Don't put an overly expensive scope on it (unless it has an unlimited lifetime warranty), simply because the scope will get beat up. But don't skimp.

My personal deer gun is a Rem 700 in 6.5x55, with a Simmons 2.5-10 Aetec scope. It has proven itself numerous times, out to 150 yards.

 

[mrhuckins]

What, nobody in the Kansas City area gonna come shoot this beast with me? I'm dissapointed. Whats the point in buying a new toy, unless everyone else is jealous over it, or wants to play with it too.

 

[Berek]

IndianaBoy: I'm sorry that you used incorrect information and something that uses the Ingalls tables. For starters, anyone loading for great distances would never load using HP tips. Greater resistance. Match grade: lower SD. Berger VLD MOLY: .64 BC. The Ingalls tables use a G1 BC model. That's fine, but G1 is not Spitzer boat tail. G8.x or G.c would be the correct BC models for a SBT. Hodgdon velocities are incorrect. Also, I don't use Hodgdon. I use a mix of Alliant Realoader 7 and Red Dot. Hodgdon burns too slow. 5 shot average (Chronographed) MV=3804 (kicks like a mule). Bottom line, using the correct models and "real life" data, I still have over 3000 (3281) ftLbs at 1.6 km. The drop ratio in velocity begins to level out as well as Ke.

Using ballistic software is nice, but it only gives a rough idea as the Ingalls Tables use incorrect formulas for todays ballistics. Try this link and you'll see what I mean http://www.steyrscout.org/extbal.htm. Most of the formulas you would need are there.

Now, as I admitted in e-mail to someone else, I have not tried to fire out to 4 miles. Kinda dumb to. But, I have done the math and even Winchester states that their factory rounds are "dangerous to 3 miles" and that's with worse numbers than I've quoted above.

Berek

 

[mrhuckins]

IndianaBoy,

According to the poll in this thread, the people on THR agree with you saying that bolt action is the way to go. Out of nearly 100 pollsters about 85% say bolt action is the way to go.

 

[user203]

Never Forget the Savage !

 

[1911 guy]

Action and Caliber

Do your research and make informed decisions, but my recomendation would be a bolt action .243. Accurate, reliable, simple and a light recoiling yet deer sized effective round.
just my opinion.

 

[GigaBuist]

If you want something off the surplus market grab you a K31 swiss, if your state allows FMJ rounds to hunt with. They're going for about $100 around here, are accurate, and have ballistics similar to the .308.

Not to start a war here, and the milsurp idea has already been tossed down as a bad idea for a 1st deer rifle (I agree) but you're not limited to FMJ with the .7.5 Swiss round that the K-31 fires. Norma loads softpoints for it, and I've got some Hornady on hand that was done as part of a small mil-surp run about a year or so ago.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Berek,

I stand corrected. Could you post some of the data you have using your calculations? How did you learn to safely mix powders? I was always under the impression that that was a big no-no.

Thanks,

Indy

 

[CB900F]

Mrhuckins;

I voted bolt. I heartily approve of your choice of the .30-06 also. As for the platform, several fine choices have been mentioned previously. But, t'were me, the one's I'd look at would be: Tikka, Winchester, and Ruger, probably in that order.

Optics: Leupold, Nikon, Sightron, probably in that order also.

Sling: Turner 1.25" military, sole choice for me. Once you realize that the sling is far more than a carrying strap, you can understand why I'll pay the premium to own Turner's.

Ammunition: My own hand-crafted stuff.

Practice lots, have fun.

900F

 

[CB900F]

Indiana Boy;

Uh, out here in Montana, 1 mile = 5280 feet/1760 yards. Therefore a quarter mile = 1320 feet (as any drag racer knows)/440 yards. By no stretch of the imagination does 1000 yards equate to a quarter of a mile.

900F

 

[Berek]

IndianaBoy: Mixing powders is a no-no IF you do not know what you are doing. I've had extensive training in demolitions and pyrotechnics. I won't post the recipe as I do not want someone reading this forum and having an accident.


Berek