Rigby sporting rifle.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Aries-

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Messages
228
im looking into buying one of these.

and im wondering what sort of bullet they shoot (wether its a standard maxi, or if its a formed octagon bullet like a whitworth rifle. or what.

im looking at the Pecatonica river kit comes with a barrel, but doesent say what kind it is. im waiting on an email from them with my answer. but that could take a while lol.

any info from the rest of you would be great. there was a guy here a while ago named whitworth he baught one. (posted back in 2003) but he hasent posted since febuary 2006 so im not thinking il get a responce to my PM to him.

thanks guys.
 
Well, Pecatonica River says
"Green Mountain .40 and .45 caliber in 1-16 and 1-18 twist intended for conical lead bullets weighing 400 to 500 grains"

G.M. does conventional land and groove rifling. Sounds like P.R. is using the same barrels as made for .40-65 and .45-70 cartridges.

There is a description of loading for the very similar Gibbs rifle as reproduced by Pedersoli at:
http://groups.msn.com/bpcr/general....LastModified=4675596273146716663&all_topics=1
 
yeah im aware of what the site says. just didnt think GM made 1 in 18 twist black powder barrels for muzzle loading.
 
would presume so. but if it has an area for the shell and such to fit properly that would cause issues for a muzzle loading bullet and breech plug.
 
i guess then any .45 bullet for muzzle loaders would work. think the .45 sabot shots would work aswell ?
 
They should work but who knows how well. The inexpensive Traditions 209 Trapper (.50 caliber) inline model has a 1 in 20" twist and it only costs a little over $100. :D
.45 caliber sabots though are made to shoot either .357 bullets or .40 caliber bullets. For some reason, I can't imagine shooting a really long heavy bullet out of a short sabot, but one never really knows unless they try it. Even the Pedersoli .45 Tyrone Rifle is designed to shoot a conical with a specific Pedersoli mold available for it.

Here's some accurate .40 caliber bullets:
http://www.prbullet.com/40.htm
http://www.prbullet.com/uls.htm
 
I believe the Rigby may be a replica of one of the .451 bored rifles which were used in the "smallbore" target matches in England in the late 1800s. I guess you could call them sort of a second generation Whitworth inasmuch as they shoot a very long slug which is under bore size by a whisker, an innovation that originated with Whitworth. The Whitworth used a fast twist to stabilize the long bullet which had to take the rifling due to the mechanical fit of bullet to bore. It was discovered that the long bullet would expand and fill the bore when a charge of 70 grains or so of powder was used. Round bullets fired in a six sided Whitworth bore became six sided bullets by the time they left the muzzle. Since the whole purpose of the six sided bore was to force an undersised bullet to spin and a long bullet was found to expand into the rifling, several new rifling configurations were tried. A standard round bore was found to work as well as the Whitworth six sided bore and the Alexander Henry rifling which was sort of a hybrid between the Whitworth and a round bore.

The Rigby, Gibbs, and the Volunteer rifles were all used in long range target matches and are still used today to shoot the 1000 yard muzzleloading rifle matches. I don't know about shooting other, shorter bullets from one, saboted or otherwise. They depend on the inertia, I think, of that really heavy bullet to resist starting to move at the moment of firing enough to expand into the rifling. A shorter, lighter bullet might not expand and just rattle down the rifling. I have some 250 grain bullets for my .45 Colt I sized to .450 which I intend to try out in my Volunteer just for grins but I haven't got around to it yet.

A by product of that long lead 550 grain slug expanding into the rifling is considerably higher pressure than with a patched round ball. The nipple on a Whitworth or one of the others like it will erode rapidly, even after as few as 25 shots I have heard. The 1000 yard guys all equip their rifles with platinum lined nipples to cope with that. I put one on my Volunteer when I got it and have had no trouble with nipple erosion after several hundred rounds.

I killed two deer with it this year and was very pleased with the performance. I think a bullet from it would penetrate completely through one, longways, and just keep on going. The meat damage was minimal. These rifles are capable of very fine accuracy,as you might guess from the 1000 yard thing, and are a good choice for one who wants a traditional rifle with capabilities normally only found in the modern in-lines.

Steve
 
very much thanks steve, thats the kind of responce i was waiting for. i think your post kind of sealed the deal on me wanting to get the rigby.

my dads friend will be a little put off by it as he was kind of hoping id get one of his new early lancaster kits. but he wants an arm and a leg for one, and im not fond of the flint lock (i flinch way to much).

do you think changing the nipple to one of the new 209 primers would help in any way ?

and what do you use in yours FF or FFF ? do you buy your own bullets or make them yourself ?. if you make them where did you get the mould for them (making bullets i find is relaxing lol, so its something i enjoy doing.
any other help you can offer steve would be great. and thanks for the excelent responce.
 
I'm not familiar with the exact Rigby rifle you refer to, am assuming it is one of the Rigby types I referenced earlier.

I make my own bullets. I got the mold from Joe Hepsworth who has forgotten more about these rifles than I will ever know. www.jcunard.com -I think Dixie also sells a mold or two which would work, not sure of the numbers. If that Rigby is a .451 bore, you want a finished bullet to be somewhere in the .446 to .450 range. I size mine to .450 and they seat with just the weight of the ramrod, maybe don't even need that if I clean between shots. Joe believes in the paper patched bullets while another school thinks bullets with grease grooves are better. I have a grease groove mold , might get a mold to cast smooth bullets for paper patching in the future but ($150.00) not yet. Unless you are shooting at 1000 yards, I don't think it matters any, and maybe not even then since the divide between the two bullets exists primarily among those who DO shoot at long ranges.

The load I have settled on is 80 grains of Swiss FFFg, a card wad cut from the back of a note pad and then the bullet. One has to be careful not to allow the bullet to slide forward after loading or you can ring your bore. That is the only disadvantage I know about with these rifles when they are used for hunting. You have a bullet under bore size which can slide toward the muzzle if you tip the barrel downward. The use of extra lube will help keep it in place or a card wad can be seated on top of it. My rifle doesn't like a wad over the bullet, accuracy goes away when I tried that but some report it works for them.

I don't know about the 209 primer adaptation. It would depend, I guess, on the quality of the metal it's made from as much as anything else. The musket caps mine takes ignite it fine but I have found not to load the powder with the hammer down or the compression keeps it out of the flash channel and I get misfires.

Steve
 
what i did this year while hunting with my dads enfield 58 cal was take a small bit of cleanex and tamp it down ontop of the bullet to keep it from moving. worked breat, also cool to see the debre fly out the end lol.

i havent gotton any word back yet from these people about what barrel it has so im getting a little impatient with them lol.

il hafta ether phone them or resend my email. maybe they have a block on hotmail accounts. i dunno.
thanks for the info.

oh it have much of a kick your rifle ? (im just kinda going for a comparison of sorts.
 
I think Steve has got it.
The British small bore rifle (Well, .451 IS smaller than .577.) was a wonderfully well developed system of barrel and bullet in the last years of muzzleloading. The only reason the American team beat the Irish at Creedmoor with Remington breechloaders versus Rigby muzzleloaders was that an Irish shooter crossfired on the wrong target. The Irish said the only advantage to the Remington was that it could be wiped every shot and loaded without changing position.

I think a plastic saboted pistol bullet would be out of place in a good repro of a Rigby. Sam Fadala tried shooting patched balls in a Whitworth and said they were not much use for more than about 50 yards.

As to recoil, bear in mind that the original Whitworth experiments were to use the same load of powder and lead as the .577 Enfield as efficiently as possible. That meant going to .45 caliber but it was still 2 1/2 drams (70 gr) powder (the long range shooters kept increasing the load, some Alex Henrys shot with 90-105 gr) and 530 gr lead. It is going to be a lot like a .45-70, too.
 
with the saboted shot im looking for something that will be reliable and fast and easy to load for out hunting. im sure the regular lead bullets are fine and all but there is always something that gives a slight advantage lol.
 
Well the nice thing about a muzzleloader is that when you experiment with oddball loads, if something doesn't work, at least you don't have 3/4 of a box of crap ammo left to get rid of somehow.
 
lol aye :)
can also use any ammo you baught to make more if you finnaly find ones that work well :)

looked at the moulds that guy has and. woo they are pricey lol. the one he recomends for the rigby is $200 for the mould. (smoth bullet for paper patch)

dixi has a lyman mould they recomend, but they rigby they have is a 1 in 28 twist. the one im looking at they say its a 1 in 18 twist. im still frustrated i havent got an email from the place im likely getting it from.

im also now concerned that i may not be able to get the kit, as dixi cannot ship caplocks to canada, wther it a fully built rifle or a kit gun.
 
Well, it don't kick when you're shooting at a deer! Mine seems to boot me a little more than a 45/70, which only makes sense with both bullet and powder charge being heavier, but with the exception of my first session with it, it's not bad at all. I was trying to zero it with the open sights it came with and that high combed Enfield stock, it was punching my right cheekbone every shot. I had a bruised cheek and a black lower eye for several days after that. Once I got the tang sight and high globe front sight on it, that problem went away!

Steve
 
i know all about the brused cheek and shoulder.

my dads enfield does that to me.

90 grains of 2f with a 16oz bullet kicks like a mule.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top