RL22 is performing strange

[gamestalker]

I've been reloading for a long time with RL22 and am very familiar with it. But recently I opened a new container and loaded my usual 7 mag. loads and was expecting similar performance, but I was surprised after a trip to the range.
I loaded some Speer 110 gr. TNT's and used the same load I've been running, 72.0 grs. RL22, 1.0 gr. above minimum. Anyway, this load has consistently produced high 3200's to 3300 fps average, and pressure signs have been very nice. However, this batch was producing 3450+ fps to as high as 3503 fps. I had several pieces of brass that were difficult to extract and also near head separation, in other words they were fractured just above the web. They didn't leak, so the fractures didn't go through and through, but it was close.
Another thing I noticed was that RL22 has always left a small amount of smoke or soot deposit right near the mouth, but these cases were 100% smoke or soot free and the necks turned rainbow colored indicating some excessive heated pressures were at work.
Is anyone aware of any recalled batches of RL22 lately, within the last 6 months to a year?
Thanks
GS

 

[The Grand Baboon]

I don't know. I just bought a can of RL22 yesterday, thank goodness I haven't loaded anything with it. What lot number is yours? (and where do you find the lot number exactly?)

 

[Mykey]

I use alot of RL22 in my 25.06 and just recently bought a new can last saturday but i haven't opened it yet. I've never had any problems with this powder and sure hope i don't start. I would also like to know what the lot# is on the container. Thanks! Mike

 

[gamestalker]

Hey guys, I'll get that lot# to you when I get back to the house in the morning. I can tell you this much, it's some where between 6 months and a year old. I've used RL22 for years and I've never had a single pressure issue or disappointing performance issue, and I like to work em up to max+. But as I said, this load was only +1 gr. above minimum and not only displayed obvious signs that something isn't right with pressures, but velocity jumped way above the comparitive loads using another lot.
I pulled some bullets to check my powder charges and all were on the dot. But what I did notice was what looked like small pieces of flakey powder, not a lot, but deffinitely nothing I've ever seen in an RL22 powder canister before.
But tomorrow I'l post that lot# and also check with the manufacturer's recall list to see if I happened to get a bad batch?
GS

 

[crimsoncomet]

Whoa! I would stop if I were you! I have never used reloader pOwders, but I have heard they were lot sensitive. But, sounds like you got a dud can. I would call alliant and tell them what's up. Maybe you got a miss labeled can?

 

[gamestalker]

Crimsoncomet, I wasn't aware that RL22 or any other Alliant product was lot# sensitive? Is this a verifiable fact? Has Alliant issued a warning or statement attesting to significant inconsistenticies from lot to lot? I've been loading for a very long time with their rifle powders and have never experienced any noticable variations what so ever, until now. And with this lot, other than the noticable performance characteristics, I also saw inconsistencies in how the powder looks, small flakes to be specific.

Anyway, here are the numbers on the 1lb. canister. CE0519 and next to that is: 05109Z062211.

 

[FROGO207]

Well the general advice when getting a new replacement can of propellant is to start reloading at the start grains and work up a load each time as all of them can be different lot to lot. All the propellant manufacturers state this in their info. I know a lot of reloaders that just load them up the same with each lot change. I do not. I buy my propellant in large containers to avoid having to work up the data very often. You may have a mislabeled container but I am willing to bet it is just lot to lot variation and yours was max from both extremes.

 

[Fall Guy]

The small flakes definitely should not be there. Is it possible that there was some different leftover powder in you powder measure or trickler when you loaded them? Does the stuff out of the canister have the flakes in it? If it does then I would notify Alliant right away. I wouldn't think lot to lot variation would cause what you're seeing with a charge you say is not near max.

 

[crimsoncomet]

Crimsoncomet, I wasn't aware that RL22 or any other Alliant product was lot# sensitive? Is this a verifiable fact? Has Alliant issued a warning or statement attesting to significant inconsistenticies from lot to lot? I've been loading for a very long time with their rifle powders and have never experienced any noticable variations what so ever, until now. And with this lot, other than the noticable performance characteristics, I also saw inconsistencies in how the powder looks, small flakes to be specific.

Easy now gamestalker! I am not trying to start a pissing match. I didnt mean to hit a wrong button there. I was stating that I have "HEARD" and "READ" of others experience with lot to lot consistency. Hence saying you got a dud can. Not that there powder is crap. I love alliants pistol powders and just bought two pounds of rifle reloader 19. This can appear with any manufacturer, and can be more so with a particular powder than all powders. Which I am sure you know. I read in the powder recall forum about bullseye being labeled as unique. So it can happen. I agree with FROGO207 about re-working a load back up with a new lot.

 

[gamestalker]

I think you misunderstood my response Crimsoncomet, sorry aboout that. I was actually serious about asking of you know of any facts about this powder having a more than typical lot to lot variations. I heard for the first time today that they have had powder get mislabled before! That really worries me. If a guy like me were to load a typical starting charge for RL22 in a 7mm RM application, but much faster burning powder was inadvertantly loaded at RL22 starting data, the results could be devestating. So that is why I was honestly and earnestly asking if you think there is good reason to consider this powder more lot sensitive than is typical of the industry.

 

[zeke]

A numbber of years ago had similiar experience using RL-22 and loading for 257 wby. Dropped the charge from 74 grains to 69 grains for 100 gn bullets. Believe they had a fast lot, as others reported same experience. You may have purchased a can of it from that era. Soon after Hdy dropped their listed charges for the 257 and 270 wby tables considerably. Am still using RL-22 for wby rounds and 6.5x55.

 

[helotaxi]

The flakes should be of concern. RL22 has none. If there are some present in your loads, you have a mixed powder and if it's flake is pistol powder. That's BAD.

I've also never heard of significant lot-to-lot variance with Alliant powders. I've heard the opposite, in fact. Some guys use RL15 instead of Varget because it is more consistent.

 

[zeke]

google rl-22 lot variations. Seems there are some people with actual experiences, not what they have "heard"

 

[gamestalker]

Helotaxi, I agree, th presence of flakes and the general dusty particle appearance has nothing to do with a lot to lot variation and is by no means a typical variation. Something went wrong, maybe they forgot to clean a bin after it had pistol powder in it? I actually heard of such a mistake, and the way this powder looks, it resembles what you might see under such circumstances. Who knows. I don't think I'll switch powders unless I should see something like this again any time soon.
Thanks for all the thoughts on this. I think I'll get back to loading with a new batch of RL22 and forget all about this bad experience, after I pull the remaining 15 or 20 rounds.

 

[Fatelvis]

Was the ambient temperature higher? I've found that a 270 Weath Mag load that showed no signs of pressure here, (~30* temp) was producing a very sticky bolt a week later in Texas (85* temp). It seems RL22 is very temperature sensitive.

 

[gamestalker]

No, it had nothing to do with the weather. I was shooting a variety of loads the other day, I know for certain it was the powder from that one canister.

 

[kelbro]

Just thinking out loud here...

Is it possible that your load that's '1 grain above minimum' (I'm guessing based on a manual) is really near the max for that rifle?

Did you work up to one or two grains more when you were developing that load?

The reason I ask is that it is possible that you were near the max for that rifle and the lot variation made it into a max load.

FWIW, QuickLoad predicts nearly 3K fps for that load at a pressure under 48K psi. Max is around 77gr.

 

[41 Mag]

I don't even know how many pounds of RL-22 I have burned up over the past 20'ish years but plenty to be sure. I have had lot to lot differences but nothing on the magnitude of what you described. I have certainly not found any flake or similar material in any I have used either.

I would DEFINITELY contact Alliant on it ASAP and see if they have any clue as to what might be going on. Like you mentioned, you got off pretty lucky, some other poor stiff might not,,,,