RL550B Powder Measure Off?

[drannor]

So I decided to make the jump into reloading. I purchased a couple of reloading manuals and read them twice as suggested. I spent the majority of yesterday setting up my bench and the machine.

I have all the dies set correctly, proper crimp, proper seating depth, correct belling, etc, etc. All measured repeated times with a set of dillon calipers.

I've read the instructions innumerable times now and still can not get the powder measure to reliable dispense the amount of powder I need. Goal is 5.7grs and I'm seeing between 5.6 and 5.9 across twenty test measures or so. I've deinstalled and reinstalled the powder die and measure twice now and can not fix this variance! :banghead:

Powder: Unique 5.7grs (start load)
Load: 125gr Speer Softpoint
Caliber: 38spl +P
Dies: Dillon 357/38

Per instructions I installed the die, mounted the powder measure. Using empty case raise ram and make sure the powder bar goes from fully closed to open. (You do start this with the bar in the closed position? The instructions do not specify) Then adjust die for proper belling. Lock die down. Then install the fail safe rod, tighten wing nut so spring holds washer in place against the bracket while handle is in priming position.

From watching the process I see that raising the ram fully actuates the power bar..... lowering the ram pulls the bar back to the point where the bellcrank hangs up on the powder measure assmebly, then as the fail safe is engaged as the ram goes down the powder bar moves further into the closed postion. The movement isn't exactly smooth, and I fear this may be the cause of the problem.

Ideas? Thoughts? I've stepped away from this twice now in frustration.

 

[swifter]

The powder measure is one of the weak points on the DILLON. Mine always measured Unique very well, tho. AA-5 would probably meter better, being a ball powder...

You might try: weigh a 10 round average, adjusting up or down to where you feel comfortable. Keep in mind that a tenth or so +/- won't make much difference in the aggregate. Be patient with the machine, and with yourself.

Tom

 

[Zak Smith]

If Unique isn't working well, try Titegroup. It's real close to the speed of Unique (and cleaner). My 650 throws consistent charges of TG all day long.

-z

 

[drannor]

Tom & Zak:

Thanks for the alternate powder suggestions, I will do some further research on which of those would work on the other pistol calibers I plan to load (.45ACP, 9mm, 40S&W) and try one out. I was trying to avoid keeping a lot of powder on hand, and unique seemed the best powder to use across calibers.

After moving my d-terminator off the bench and onto a different surface the measurements tightened a little. Seeing 5.6 - 5.8 now, which is more acceptable. 6.0 is the max book load and I'm well shy of that and I don't think 5.6 would squib. (I'm a n00b at this though) I measured every 5th powder throw, which slowed things considerably, but I thought paranoia was in order!

I've loaded up 50 rds and am headed to the range tonight. Checked OAL on all 50 rounds, right on the spec. Crimps look good in comparison to factory ammo, the speer bullet I'm using has a cannelure and crimps are clean into it. Anyone have a measurement for this crimp?

I will post results after shooting my test ammo. (S&W 586-0)

 

[Zak Smith]

I used to use a bunch of powders in those calibers: N320 in 9x19, Unique in .44, Bullseye & Unique in .45ACP. I switched everything over to Titegroup (except for full-house loads in .44RM or NATO/+P in 9x19).

In .45ACP, I use a 200gr plated round nose with 5.1gr TG for IPSC.
In 9x19, I use a 124gr plated RN with 4.2gr TG.
In 44RM, I use a 180 - 240gr plated with 8.0gr TG.
In .40SW, I use 4.7 - 5.0gr TG with 180gr for IPSC (*** loaded to 1.230" OAL, will only run in STI/SV and Para guns. Drop it down some for normal short .40 loads.)

Make sure the sliding bar in the powder measure is going "stop to stop" - full travel - when the press runs. If it doesn't, that can contribute to inconsistent charges.

When I'm loading a new load on the 650, I get the measure in the right range by only populating that station on the press, and measuring each charge thrown until I get it right 3 or 4 times in a row. Then I start to run cartridges in every station, and check the charges thrown for 5 or 6 times, to make sure it hasn't changed when there's more "chunking" going on -- after all, in production, the press will have stuff happening at every station. Once that's tuned, I just leave it and check once every couple hundred rounds. In addition, I visually inspect the powder in the case before I place the bullet in the seating station.

Finally, the 650 has a powder check station which I use.

I doubt even a 50% charge would cause a squib.. it won't run a semi-auto, but I bet it would clear the barrel.

-z

 

[HSMITH]

You'd be hard pressed to see one tenth of a grain with a tuned bullseye gun in a machine rest at 25 yards, and with 2 tenths variation it would still be nearly impossible. You are worrying a lot about very little.

That said, you can tighten up the variations by making sure you use the same stroke with the same cadence on the machine. When you hit the end of the stroke hit the stop with the same amount of force, when you seat the primers make sure you use the same tempo and force. Also keep the measure 2/3rds full or more. This will take you down to a tenth or so with Unique, I can get charges within a tenth all day long on all of my Dillon measures and do it on either 550. The good news is Unique is one of the more difficult powders to get metering well.

There is no reason to switch powders, Unique is a great powder and very versatile. Only worry about changing if your performance desires aren't safe with the powder you have chosen. Even mediocre loads shoot better than all but a few handgunners, get out and SHOOT!!!!

 

[30Cal]

Consistancy in your stroke is the number one way to get consistant powder throws, but there is a practical limit to how tight you can get the variance. I found that by giving the metal body of the measure a rap with a knuckle prior to throwing the charge helped to make things more consistant. The measure works best when the column is mostly full of powder.

I weighed and recorded about 100 consecutive charges one night and noted whenever the press jarred or didn't stroke smoothly. In almost every case, the next charge after a bad stroke was appreciably off. Once you understand the nature of the beast, you can really predict when most of the worst charges are going to drop and you can just discard them. The exercise takes about an hour or two, but it's really an eye opener into what's driving your charge variance. I've also done a couple decent runs using different strokes, taps of the powder measure (one tap is generally best), volumes of powder in the measure and by running just one shell at a time through the works (this is slightly more accurate from a powder charge standpoint, but costs time).

You might also consider this: some loads will be more tolerant of variance than others. The absolute most accurate load might require extremely accurate powder charges. But then, there's also often a load that will still be plenty accurate, and won't really care if the charges are 2 or 3 tenths off. So load away, and find a combination that shoots well inspite of what your measure is doing from charge to charge.

I try to minimize my time at the bench while still getting adequate accuracy. I don't like to add a lot of time that isn't adding a lot of accuracy--this is time that would be better spent dryfiring--improving the shooter. Afterall, I am almost always the limiting factor as far as accuracy goes.

Ty

 

[Black Snowman]

Make sure the press isn't moving either. Shaking or moving of the press will upset any powder thrower and hurt consistance. Make sure the bench is strong enough not to torque while you're loading. This has been mentioned by several reloaders as being a factor and, after Dillon tech support sugested it, cured the same problem for another user on this forum IIRC.

 

[243_shooter]

The best way I've found to adjust the measure is to throw 10 charges, take an average, adjuste, repeat. Say I wanted 5 gr, I'd throw 10 measure and adjust until I was getting 50 gr per 10 throws.

Whenever I throw 1 charge, and then adjust, I wind up chasing the adjustment all over. If I use the average method I usually check every 50th round or so while loading and it's always +/- .1

Like the other folks have said, since I upgraded to a heavier bench, anchored to the wall, it throws more consistent charges.

Mine also seems to return all the way back on it's own. If yours is hanging up and being snapped back by the failsafe rod, I'm sure that would effect accuracy. Does it operate smoothly with no powder in it? As I understand it the failsafe rod is a safety feature "just in case" the measure doesn't return fully, not the primary closing mechanism for the measure.

Another factor may be the powder bar. Your not trying to get small charges from the large charge bar are you? (I did while learning ). Doesn't work so hot.

I use primarily 231, HS6, and HS7 which all seem to meter great, never really used unique so it could just be a function of the powder?

Leo

 

[Jim Watson]

Yak, yak, yak.
All the above is true, but...
A 0.3 grain spread with a large flake powder like Unique is perfectly normal and there are few powder measures which could hold closer. Maybe a $250 Harrell Scheutzen with benchrest technique.
It will make little or no difference in the shooting. Factory loads are likely no closer.
If it really bothers you, get a Ball powder. Then you will see only a 0.2 grain spread.

 

[warrior23]

I have both newer powder measures and older ones./The older seem to be more consistent throwing charges.I know my newer one on my 650 can't hold aa9 it spills out of the measure all over the place.Most though keep within the +/-.2 grain.

 

[drannor]

After reading all of the above I've concluded that I need to more firmly mount my reloading bench. I am getting some torque on the downstroke / primer insertion and this is likely causing variances.

I am using the small powder bar, and I have full movement before the fail safe kicks in. Still, the overall vertical movement of the measure assembly as the powder funnel engages doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence. Just seems a little awkward to my eyes.

My n00b mistake was using the large primer magazine with small primers. Kept wondering why I was getting upside down, sideways, and disoriented primers from the tube. I replace the slide..... missed the magazine. That was a fun swap.

That said, thanks all for the reassurance that this variance isn't a big deal. I shot my first batch of .38spl reloads over the weekend with no problems. Accuracy was excellent out of my 586. As several others have stated, I am definitely the limiting factor in that equation anyways.