RO needs help with "range idiots"

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BattleChimp Potemkin

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Indianapolis IN
Okay, with all the posts of "range idiots", makes me worry about the image of "dont go to the range, you mess up once, you get screamed and threatened!". We dont do that of course ;), but I would like to request people's ideas and stories on how they CONSTRUCTIVELY corrected a range mistake. I am an RO here in Indy, so it's also a lesson for me :banghead:
I correct nicely, but I guess I feel better in knowing how people handle different situations in a calm and forgiving fashion, so I can learn more (yeah, that means you will be a hero to me for having patience, so move over Batman!).:)
 
There's different levels of mistakes, the ones that are serious safety violations need to be treated as such. Other things which are more policy related can go something along the lines of 'If you could not scrounge for brass while the range is hot, that'd be great m'kay?' Whatever spin you want to use.

Man, I seriously got jumped on for muzzle down on a muzzle up range and had the off duty cops on my ass the enire shoot. Wasn't pleasant and I haven't been back there in a year.
 
There's so much an RSO can do when it's like 14 shooters against 3 RSO...at least at my range.

They're there to reinforce what other shooters see unsafe handling at the firing line.

+1 for you, -1 to the uncaring gramps.
 
Umm... yeah... I'm going to need you to keep that arm pointed down range at all times... great...

Umm... yeah... I'm going to need you to keep behind the firing line until it's cold, k?.... great...

Umm... yeah... I'm going to need that stapler to put up targets... And could you fill out the TPS reports before you leave?... Great
 
A modest proposal

For violators of range rules.

A small fine system might be implemented.

For example: Records could be kept of charges of violations by other members. Make it anonymous if you want, but after more than one violation recorded, show them to the violator.

After the second violation is noted, offer a $1.00 fine added to range use fee for that day. OR--how about adding a tentative $1.00 fee to the daily use fee, and if there is a violation, keep it. Justify the fee as a compensation for the cost of SAFETY RULES literature expense.

The fine might seem ridiculous, but there are 2 reasons for a humble fine:

Reason (1) the purpose is to educate, not to punish.

(Have an educational "flyer" ready containing info on "sweeps" or "pointing the barrel at a person" or other stuff.

Reason (2) Most users will be more kindly disposed to accept a gentle criticism, whereas a large fine would really piss them off.

Explain such a system to all new members or all newcomers to the range, indicating that Range use is a PRIVILEGE and not a RIGHT, and any non-compliance with Range Rules will result in an invitation to shoot elsewhere.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Explain to users the very real Life & Death dangers of Range use, and encourage users to both ACCEPT and PROMOTE your new policy.
 
We are a city run operation, therefore, we would have to put it into their consideration, and three years later, maybe an answer. Not a bad idea with the range "penalty" idea. I like that.
 
BTW, we've had complaints about one of our ROs threatening that exact thing (sweep me and Ill throw one into your head, etc...). Even while joking, we cannot stand there and say that. Very unprofessional and not taken lightly with the city (potential charges for menacing).
 
If you are the RO a little diplomacy might be nice instead of stating the Saiga 12 shooters are seedy looking like you did in another post. Could be some push back in how YOU interact with people.

I like strict safety rules but no body likes being talked down to.
 
On the 'small fines' idea... I used to frequent a bar with a dart board. Holes in the wall cost the thrower a buck each, to be donated to charity. It worked very well at keeping drunken fools away from the dart board, and made a fair amount of money for charity. It might be a good idea, until you get some idiot who walks in and tosses the RSO a twenty, and starts committing safety violations at will :(

I'm 'one of those guys' who has given up on managed ranges because of the safety procedures most ranges have implemented. Call me nuts, but I enjoy rapid fire once in a while. I like to bounce tin cans around the range, I enjoy shooting reactive targets, and I like to practice draw and fire techniques. I see no reason why any of these activities are intrinsically 'unsafe', given a safe back stop and proper attention to the 4 rules.

Back to the original question: I take a good number of new shooters to the range, and have to act as RSO myself. When I take someone to the range, I make sure they know the rules, and I tell them in advance that if I see them doing something unsafe I will let them know about it, as loudly as I deem necessary under the circumstances. Please don't take it personally, but safety violations on the firing line are a deadly serious subject.

I find that as long as people know what to expect, I have few problems, and there are no hard feelings when I react strongly to someone who makes a mistake.
 
Step one, get out of the way. Move your feet if someone is sweeping you or such. If it affects others and is serious call a cease fire, bench all weapons and step back. Either way once the chimp is separated from his weapon calmly explain what they did. I will often say and point Downrange! as I am evading the relentless muzzle sweeper.
If they get indignant, do it again, or can't see what they did wrong I go see the RO and get them booted.

If no one is in immediate danger (dummy shooting target carriers because he can't aim) wait until they are done shooting then calmly address. I try not to get mad when I see chunks of ceiling coming down. Watched one fellow hit the drywall baffle the first shot, the 8ft fluoresent light tube behind the baffle the 2nd. Went to talk to them quickly. Turns out that they were sighting in their new AR with a very loose scope. Tightened it down, took three nicely grouped shots for them and told them about not damaging the range. Everyone left safe and happy.
 
I'm not an RSO, but I've stepped in a couple of times. The range I used to frequent was large but had only one RSO on duty - can't possibly see everything at all times. The worst violation I ever witnessed was an obviously new shooter being "taught" by another how to fire a large Taurus revolver. It seemed to escape the attention of the "teacher" that while the pupil was listening and nodding he was also absent-mindedly sweeping the muzzle of that wheelgun across half the range at head-height with his finger on the trigger! I remember ducking and yelling loudly to get his attention through the earplugs. I had to switch to Spanish when I realized they didn't understand what I was yelling. :rolleyes: I decided to go through the 4 rules with both of them a couple of times until they could repeat it back to me.

As for me, I moved to a spot on the far side of the range. Then I packed up early. Gave a heads up to the RSO on the way out.
 
Seedy thing: B/c I think it, does not change how I interact with them. Just a thought.:) One can think all they want regarding an appearance, but it should never change how they interact with them.
Didnt you read my last post regarding that? You obviously didnt. I stated that those particular folks who came out with them were always sort of seedy lookin. Did I say ALL Saiga owners are? NOOOOO! Read more deeply rather than skimming.
 
The biggest problem I see with RSOs is yelling at someone from across the range. It makes them feel like an ass. If things can be handled privately, then by all means do it. For example, if someone has swept the firing line, but the gun is now pointed in a safe direction, it does no good to yell at them about what they just did. Calmly go up to them and talk to them about it. If they are in the act, that is a different situation, and a response like "all firearms pointed down range please" and then go over and talk to them about it. Just don't talk to them like they are some sort of idiot.
 
The sad issue is our range does not allow rifles (pistols, pistol caliber rifles, .22s and shotguns), much to many customer's dismay. One guy opened up with a Mosin, we informed him politely of the no rifle policy (yeah, I know, its sucks-kind of thing) to whihc he flies into a rage, "well, what about that guy's AR?" "well, sir, that weapon has a .22 conversion kit and..." "awhhh horse<whoopie>! You guys are all out to get me, huh?" To which, he packed up and left (thank the lord). I guess its just that some folks dont get the hint with kindness, even when you give it to them. We try to handle things privately, but they always seem to blow up and make it public (of thier own volition). :p I see that the trend is kindness, but with some actual sanctions behind it (range fee penalties or explusion, etc..). These are all good ideas/hints/tips.
 
I went to a "range " for the first time last weekend. My son and I were invited to a plate match. When I committed a range violation on of the other fellas that happens to be a RO informed me of my infraction, the reason it was unsafe and how I could achieve my goal safely. All in a friendly tone of voice, not drill Sgt., not condescending at all, just friendly coaching of a range newb.

Worked for me.

Wheeler44
 
A lot of this simply comes down to "people skills." Many posting on this board have to deal with people at work... it's the same thing.
Upon occasion, a dangerous situation can arise that requires a quick, loud, strong, command, in order to insure that everyone gets to go home alive.
More often, a situation can be dealt with quietly and privately.

I did my own really dumb thing at an outdoor public range last Summer. The range has two berms, one at 150 yards, another off to one side and behind it at 300 yards. I was shooting a handgun at 25 yards. We'd all gone downrange to change our targets, and come back. I stepped up to the line to shoot, and just before I squeezed off a shot, a fellow to my left quietly said, "There's somebody still down there." Sure enough, a guy was just coming in around the 150 yard berm. I felt like an ass. Thinking back on it, I still do. Still, he didn't yell, he didn't try to make me feel stupid, he didn't make an example out of me in front of everyone else. He just kept me from making an even bigger ass out of myself, and I owe him for it.
Marty
 
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