Rock River 9/11 Commemorative Rifle

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But I put my money on a Colt because I wanted the side of my rifle to say LEO restricted on the side.
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You know they're selling most (all?) the 16" & longer bbl. LE marked guns as Sporters without the LE markings now.
 
Has anyone heard back from RRA regarding donations from the proceeds? I'm interested to know if they're doing that or just doing a bit of exploitatative profit making.
 
If I was a car dealer for brand X and I told you: "Mr. Blue, since you're an average guy, and not a race car driver wannabe, you'll love brand X. We don't tighten any bolts with torque wrenches at the factory, we just hand tighten everything to whatever the individual mechanic feels is good. Now, if you're a race car driver wannabe, you can go get a sedan across the street from brand Y. They assemble their engines, and even their door hinge screws with torque wrenches, and tighten them all to specific values. They cost the same as the sedans here at brand X, but why would want to buy from them?" Would you buy a car from me?
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well, if automobiles only had 3 or 4 threaded fasteners that really amounted to a hill of beans how tight they were, and i could get to them all without dropping the tranny or pulling the motor, and i really really wanted the car with "911 tenth year commemoration" on the doors? (not to mention, i bought that other 16" hbar automobile from you ten years ago and have really enjoyed driving it)

ya, i would buy your car. :D
 
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ok, so nay on the RRA rifles because most here seem to think I can do better for the same money.

Stag? Armalite maybe? I know Armalite very well and I trust their brand. How do you guys feel about CMMG and Bravo Company?
 
kwelz: They are known for cutting a lot or corners. 1/9 barrel twist instead of 1/7. They don't bother to mill down the barrel so it is heavy as hell. Instead of using proper M4 feed ramps they put the gun together and then take a dremel to the ramps which leaves unfinished metal exposed. They don't HP/MPI individual barrels and bolts, and they don't chrome line their barrels.

Add to this a few other things they do and don't do and you have a gun without any reason to purchase it. And all that for the same price as a much better gun.
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I thought a 1/9 twist would be better so you can stabilize heavier bullets then a 1/7 would?


.
 
usmarine0352_2005,

1/7 for longer (heavier) bullets than 1/9.
Lower numer = higher twist.
1 turn in 7 vs 1 turn in 9 linear inches
 
.


Ah, thanks. I got that screwed up.




Matrem, I want to hunt with my patrol rifle, I think the grain is 65, so your saying that would be fine out of a 1/9 twist?

.
 
Still no response to the e-mail, other than the auto reply that says give them 72 hours to respond. Maybe tomorrow?
 
1/9 has trouble over 62grain.
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lol kwelz. lets keep it real.

the following are all sub moa performers in every 1/9 barrel ive ever owned. (1 colt model 6700c match target rifle, 2 16" bushmasters, and an e.r. shaw 1/9 complete upper)

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=300177
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1482224712
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=837001
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1165559619
(that last one is a hornady 75g with a ballistic coefficient of 0.395)

thats a 68, a 69, a 70, and a 75.

all loaded with varget, in l.c. brass trimmed to 1.750, cci s.r. primers, and lee factory crimped.

c.o.a.l. of:
2.245, 2.245, 2.260, and 2.255 in order. (in other words, they fit in a magazine)

i have the targets still (dozens of them, all 5 shot, all right at 1" or smaller)

there are plenty of legitimate reasons to go with a 1/7 over a 1/9, or going with one rollstamp over another, but shooting 69g bullets aint one of them. (you guys crack me up sometimes) :D
 
I have seen a number of 1/9 barrels have trouble with 62 grain and higher bullets. Of course I have also seen some like the ones you mentioned that worked. The point is that they are hit and miss. So why chance it?
 
Matrem, I want to hunt with my patrol rifle, I think the grain is 65, so your saying that would be fine out of a 1/9 twist?
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i think maybe what you have seen is 68's or 69's, and yes, those would be fine if your patrol rifle is a 1/9.

as a rule of thumb, if you shoot a 1/9, stay away from slower bullets heavier than 70, and if you shoot a 1/7, stay away from faster bullets lighter than 50.
 
Mr.Blue said:
Many of the naysayers are commando wannabes. RRA and Stag are two good mid level AR15 makers. The guns are good for anything that the average person will use it for. If you want Mil-Spec, look elsewhere though.

EDIT: commando wannabes is not meant as an insult. It means the guys who shoot and train like they are in the special forces and expect their guns to be able to go to hell and back.
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No offense taken. "Commando wannabee" is actually a pretty cool area to hang out in. Many of us take classes because they are fun, and for that alone. Not everyone competes, but stand up slow shooting from the bench gets boring quickly.

It's also an excellent reflex skill to have should you need it. Rifle comps and classes do also help your pistol shooting. My carbine hobby has exhausted my funds for cable, fast food lunches, and beer. I don't miss those. Hopefully I'll never be more than a wannabee. This nation would be in a really bad spot push me to anything else.

Heck, at least it beats fishing. It's fun, and that's ok. And there is nothing wrong with building guns for a hobby. Building them reliable is part of that fun. Some companies don't help us with that as much as others.

I would also tend to avoid RRA, DPMS, etc.etc. for serious work. I've had good luck with Stag actually. They are priced too close to Colt and LMT though. And I'd bet my life on those.

But you can get by with these. Make sure you have a complete lower parts kit, and a complete bolt from a good company, before you empty your wallet with carbine class and traveling competition plans.

If youre in a position where the foibles of lower AR's can get really frustrating, then invest in the top shelf stuff. If some trouble here or there is no problem, then it deosnt even matter.
 
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So whats the real grip with RRA. Price,Quality control,materials just wondering. I got one brand new 20 inch heavy barrel 2 stage trigger never fired for 650. Would i give 1000 for it no, would i give a 1000 for a colt,stag or whatever NO. My buddies have CMMG,DPMS,COLT,BUSHMASTER and guess what their all black all shoot about the same.
 
ATF said:
So whats the real grip with RRA. Price,Quality control,materials just wondering. I got one brand new 20 inch heavy barrel 2 stage trigger never fired for 650. Would i give 1000 for it no, would i give a 1000 for a colt,stag or whatever NO. My buddies have CMMG,DPMS,COLT,BUSHMASTER and guess what their all black all shoot about the same.
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Just better rifles out there for a similar price. That's about it.

There are some brands that stand out for reliability and features. It's not really a big deal, but when someone asks for a recommendation for the better stuff....
 
Sgt.Murtaugh said:
ok, so nay on the RRA rifles because most here seem to think I can do better for the same money.

Stag? Armalite maybe? I know Armalite very well and I trust their brand. How do you guys feel about CMMG and Bravo Company?
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Bravo Company USA is excellent. I recently bought a 18" Mk12 SPR Mod3x (14" DD rail) with ION bond finish. Flawless.

Unlike the other BCM uppers this came with a bolt carrier group standard. Couldn't buy it without. Wonder if it's fitted or something? Or if they are just trying to avoid a bad reputation incase some MOMO puts a bad bolt in and has poor accuracy results or something?

You can't get a complete rifle from BCM. They're sold out for a while. You can get a LMT lower then snap a BCM upper onto it.

Larue
LMT
Colt

Not sure about CMMG anymore. And thier website seems pricey.
 
Well,I've had several AR 15's over the years,and have never had a problem out of any of my RRA's.Other than ammo,or magazine related.

If your into loosing accuracy,go ahead and buy your chrome lined barreled whatever brand tactical wannabe acting like a soldier AR15.Unless,you are using an AR15 for your job,and I don't recall too many non LEO or Armed Forces jobs that need one for work.There's no need in a chrome lined barrel.

Face it,Most people that have AR's,won't ever shoot enough rds out of them to shoot out a barrel.
Most people that own AR's shoot the cheapest ammo that they can find-55gr FMJ,so there's no need in having a 1-7 twist barrel.
And a 1-9 will shoot up to a 69gr all day long.They even have a 75gr bullet from Hornady if you reload for a 1-9 twist.I have quite a few boxes of them setting on the shelf.

I currently have 2 RRA guns,a 20" Varminter 1-8 twist,and a 458 SOCOM.I've had the Varminter for several years and it shoots sub-moa all day long with handloads.I've never had any problems or malfunctions out of it.
The 458 is fairly new,but it is very reliable,and fun as hell to shoot.

Are there better AR's out there,Yes.
Will they perform better for the average guy that buy's an AR,Probably not.
 
Well,I've had several AR 15's over the years,and have never had a problem out of any of my RRA's.Other than ammo,or magazine related.
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As you state later in your post, you shoot for groups with your handloads. You don't run your ARs hard, so you're making that statement from a weak position.
If your into loosing accuracy,go ahead and buy your chrome lined barreled whatever brand tactical wannabe acting like a soldier AR15.Unless,you are using an AR15 for your job,and I don't recall too many non LEO or Armed Forces jobs that need one for work.There's no need in a chrome lined barrel... Most people that own AR's shoot the cheapest ammo that they can find-55gr FMJ,so there's no need in having a 1-7 twist barrel.
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Well, a 1:7 twist barrel will stabilize 55gr FMJ just as well as a 1:12 (per US Army FM 23-9), so why not get the 1:7, and keep the option open to shoot ony of the the 75gr and 77gr stuff if you want? Other than Federal XM193 (which is rejected if it won't hold MOA at 200 yards http://le.atk.com/pdf/XM193.pdf), cheap 55 gr FMJ is dirty, and not an MOA load to start with; so the chrome lined barrel loses no appreciable accuracy, and is far easier to clean. The chrome lined chamber also eases extraction with this dirty ammo. When we get into steel cased ammo tougher extractors, and proper extractor springs & inserts become more of a factor; this again leads to a higher quality rifle being the way to go to shoot really cheap ammo.
And a 1-9 will shoot up to a 69gr all day long.They even have a 75gr bullet from Hornady if you reload for a 1-9 twist.I have quite a few boxes of them setting on the shelf.
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A 1:8 or 1:7 twist barrel will stabilize that same Hornady bullet at a much wider range of RH, temp, and altitude than a 1:9 twist. Also, Hornady is the only company that states a 1:9 twist .223 or 5.56 bbl will stabilize their 75 grainers. Everyone else says to use 1:8 or faster.
I currently have 2 RRA guns,a 20" Varminter 1-8 twist,and a 458 SOCOM.I've had the Varminter for several years and it shoots sub-moa all day long with handloads.I've never had any problems or malfunctions out of it. The 458 is fairly new,but it is very reliable,and fun as hell to shoot.
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You talk about the average guy your whole post, but then you reveal you shoot .458 SOCOM, and handload for your .223 AR. Neither of those are things the average guy does.

While we're on this little part of your post, are you a sniper or Squad Designated Marksman wannabe? You assert that everyone who likes properly assembled carbines must be a commando wannabe. You like shooting sub MOA groups from your semi-auto rifle, so I can only conclude that you are a sniper or SDM wannabe. See how that works? :neener:
Are there better AR's out there,Yes.
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This is true, and they're also available for the same price or less than rifles from RRA. This brings us back to the question, why pay more money(buy an RRA), for less rifle?
Will they perform better for the average guy that buy's an AR,Probably not.
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If you read my statements above in regards to the advantages of having a chrome lined bore & chamber, and properly assembled bolt when shooting cheap ammo (which is what you assert the average guy does with an AR), then actually the better ARs will perform better for the average guy.
 
The DEA and a pant load of LEO departments seem content with using RRA offerings.....and I am sure they stake their lives on them more often than most of us do....

RRA AR-15s suck...unless you own one....then they are great.....unless you had a 2nd cousin whose best friend's sister had one fall apart on the 1st trigger pull....then they suck...again.

Or simply put....the sh*t I own is way better than the sh*t you own. Seems like most of the AR15 threads end this way. :evil:
 
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