Rohrbaugh vs. J-Frame

[Bob79]

I saw some postings over on the Rohrbaugh forum regarding comparing the R9 and the J-frame. The Rourbaugh is from what I understand a great gun, but when people start posting saying that they've had to send back their revolvers for service more than their semi-autos I'm just not understanding. I am 25 years old and have fired a total of maybe 750-800 rounds with my Smith Revolvers and have NEVER had a misfire of any kind, 100% reliable. I have prob shot some 1200-1300 rounds with Semi-Autos, with quality guns like Beretta, Sig, Kahr, Seecamp, and Glock. And with EVERY semi-auto I have failures to feed, failures to eject, and other mishaps. If I had to put a # on it...I would guess some 25-30 failures.

So that along with them saying its better to have 6+1 vs. 5 rounds of .38 I don't get it. W/ quality ammo a standard pressure 9mm and a 38+P are darn near close as can be. And with 100% reliabilty I'll take the revolver! As far as dimensions, Airweights are virtually the same .7oz difference, and Airlites are lighter. They did post some good comparison pics, and other than the width of the cyclinder there ain't much difference. And lets not even mention price, its a no brainer

I'm not against semi-autos, I currently have a P220 & a Seecamp .32 and they have their place. But I think hands down the J-frame beats the R9! All opinions welcome, even from you Rohrbaugh fans And don't forget to vote!

 

[ducktapehero]

I'd take a J-frame. I've simply had better luck with revolvers than I have had with auto's. Other people have obviously had different experiences so I won't say one is better than another, it's just a matter of personal preference.

 

[tbeb]

J-frame. Rohrbaugh costs too much. If I wanted to pocket a 9mm it'd be a Kahr PM9.

 

[Rangie]

J-frame. Rohrbaugh costs too much. If I wanted to pocket a 9mm it'd be a Kahr PM9.

Same here ! For what they get for a Rohrbaugh I could have J-frame's for all of my pockets.

 

[DDGator]

Hmmmm. I wonder what kind of response you are going to get in the "Revolvers" forum... Hmmmm.

The thread at the Rohrbaugh Forum is here: http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1092588684

The R-9 is much smaller and more pocketable than a Kahr PM-9. The price difference between a Kahr (which isn't cheap) or a S&W made from unobtainium (or whatever) is not that different -- $300 or less. Maybe 30%.

If 9mm and .38+p are nearly identical -- why isn't 7 better than 5?

I am one of the ones who posed this question. I love my wheel guns. To me there was little that could compete with the size and weight of an ultralight J-frame -- until now.

If you don't like semis -- you won't like the Rohrbaugh R-9. If price is a major factor -- you won't like the Rohrbaugh R-9. To all others -- I highly recommend it. Not to say it has to replace your j-frame... but it might.

 

[Bob79]

OK, but...

First off, this is of course all my opinion, but to address a few things...

5 is better than 7 because as much as you can trust a mechanical thing (a gun) 5 "for sure" is better than the risk of 1 + a chance of failure. Now I know good semi-autos, with good mags, good ammo, kept in good condition can be very reliable. BUT a wheel gun is still more reliable.

The material is Titanium and Scandium.

Also, posting this question under the "Revolver" heading is no more unfair than posting this type of question on the "Rohrbaugh Forum", which of course is much in favor of the R9. You know its amazing that if you only read the Rohrbaugh forum you'd be fooled into thinking the R9 was perfect .

Also it was posted that Rouhrbaugh used Aircraft Aluminum and not other materials that could have been lighter in order to keep the cost down. Then it was said, they wanted to keep the price under $1,000 to keep it a "shooters" weapon

Well the darn thing is just a hair under 1K, and I don't know too many "shooters" who can afford to spend that much. If you're trying to make the "perfect pocket gun" I think that being able to have one would be a requirement, and the price tag doesn't really allow that to happen. And kudos to the gun mags for not rolling over.

I don't hate the R9, I just think it is priced way too high, and too many people are making too much of the gun. And to say that its better than a J-frame I just don't agree with that.

 

[Bob79]

$$$

Oh yeah I forgot about more on price, with the $300 dollar figure and the 30% thing.

R9=$945

1.) Airweight (same weight as R9)=$350 63% cheaper 2.) Airlite=$450-500 for 342's (11oz) 48% cheaper 3.) 640's etc=$550-600 (12oz) 37% cheaper

 

[JohnBT]

"Well the darn thing is just a hair under 1K, and I don't know too many "shooters" who can afford to spend that much."

I had the cash in hand and was ready to order one...and then I ran across a Colt WWI repro Friday. Back to the 442 and P-32 for the time being anyway.

John

 

[DDGator]

Your comparison regarding the forums is, of course, correct. My point was that a "poll" gives an appearance of objectivity when the sampled audience is skewed to start. This would have made more sense in the General Hanguns forum. Many people who like the R-9 (or semi-autos generally) will never venture into the Revolvers forum.

If you have spent any time reading the Rohrbaugh Forum, it is -- by definition -- full of Rohrbaugh enthusiasts. We do not, however, maintain the gun is perfect. In fact, we openly discuss a lot of issues with the gun. We don't, however, much tolerate misinformation.

I wasn't really thinking about the Airweights, but the Airlites -- thus the reference to "unobtainium" -- which was a joke. My 33% figure isn't too far off your numbers. I have seen street prices of $850 and if you have a +10% relationship with a dealer, you could get it for a little less. Prices will settle down as the gun becomes more available. Frankly, at this point you are likely to get gouged if you don't deal with a reputable dealer.

For the sake of argument, lets say $900. What other self-defense guns can you buy for less that have no stamped, MIM or cast parts? You are paying a bit of a premium for good materials, good workmanship and to offset the R&D for the smallest 9mm autoloader in production.

And, if you want to compare suggested retail prices, the larger Kahr PM9 with polymer frame is $707. Bet there are some MIM parts in there for cost-savings too.

As for the j-frame being 5 "for sure" -- I have said that myself, but I don't really believe it. Small parts in the revolver can fail. Bullets can be "pulled" in light revolvers and stop the rotation of the cylinder -- a problem so common that warnings are printed on the side of the gun. I have had revolvers stop on me before.

To be clear -- I am not saying that the R-9 is superior to the J-frame in all applications. I love wheelguns. I am saying that the R-9 is, maybe for the first time, a darn good alternative for those that may not have previously found what they wanted.

Oh... And if all a person has to spend is $350 -- the S&W Airweights are a screaming good deal -- point well taken.

 

[ruger357]

J-frame airweight.

 

[Bob79]

OK

Points well-taken. Especially the one about the poll portion being under the "Revolver" heading. Initially I was just gonna post, and then decided to do a poll at the last minute (I've never done one before). I figured the moderator would move it if it belonged somewhere else, heck if others think its a good idea maybe I'll do a new one under General???

And yes, a revolver can malfunction. BUT if is because the bullets pulled out on an Airlite then its YOUR fault. Its says right in the manual to test out your ammo first, which I have done before. I have fired prob about 100-125 rounds with +P ammo, no problems (this # count doesn't include standard pressure). I still argue that a good wheel gun is as close to "for sure" as you can get in any handgun, and every smith I have talked with agrees.

Heck if the R-9 comes down to a reasonable price someday I may buy one, but for a pocket semi-auto I'll stick with my Seecamp 32. For now with the price so high and the bugs being worked out, I would rather spend $250 for new P-3AT w/ some possible headaches.

 

[DDGator]

Here is my fear with bullet pull. Any maybe its unfounded? I agree that you need to follow the instructions in the manual and thoroughly test on a particular ammo.

[Unfortunately, my 342 can't shoot my prefered snubby round -- the lead semi-wadcutter "treasury" load, since its not jacketed.]

However, isn't there a potential for particular rounds to have a bad crimp and start backing out even though other boxes of the same ammo performed o.k.? I see some lack of uniformity in factory ammo -- but maybe the premimum defense stuff is o.k. This is not a reason I wouldn't carry a light-weight snubby -- but it makes we wonder sometimes.

I have had my 625 bind up on a bent moonclip that I didn't notice when loading. Now I check cylinder rotation on every moon clip before relying on it. That is easy to do when you have an exposed hammer, but hard (or dangerous!) to do with a Centennial style.

 

[nero45acp]

Colt D-frame.




nero

 

[tbeb]

'And, if you want to compare suggested retail prices, the larger Kahr PM9 with polymer frame is $707. Bet there are some MIM parts in there for cost-savings too."

Suggested retail price is indeed $707. However, without even looking anyplace else, one could buy a new one right now on Auction Arms for $544 + $10 shipping + transfer fee.

 

[Jim March]

A big concern with the Rohrbaugh:

http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/r9s-tests-02/basefile/expand2.htm

I don't know why P95Carry didn't realize how much tumbling/keyholing he was seeing.

Let's break it down:



Gold Dot 115s. The last two aren't "flat topped". Look at 'em: they "yawed" before hitting the target.



Gold Dot 125s. Again: two out of three (leftmost two) hit at a slight angle. Not bad enough to prevent expansion mind you...

Look, if it was JUST these rounds that did it, I might be nutso. Although this is still unusual so far. But keep reading:



Federal 135 Hydrashocks. Something went way wrong in the middle there, hard to say what.

Federal 115s. P95Carry's text says this "maybe" a tumble? Dude...there's no "maybe" about it. The outer two were all screwed up. The middle appears to have hit going BACKWARDS?



Remington Golden Saber 115s. The first two hit at a funky yaw. The third one, P95Carry didn't know what happened. Sorry, but I do: sucker hit sideways. Classic keyhole.

--------------

Conclusion: either Rohrbaughs are completely screwed up, or whoever made that particular barrel was drunk on the job. We're seeing huge problems across an array of ammo types of good, name-brand rep.



Ain't no WAY I'd trust that, unless it was proven to me this was one fluke bad specimen.

Edited to add: this isn't the only keyholing report:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92874

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1090454291

The vendor's rebuttal is worth a look too though:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1091220026

There may be something to the idea that it just needs to eat Gold Dots...?

 

[saltydog452]

R9??

I dunno, there may be a R-9 somewhere in my future, but I'm not sure that I want one $ 1,000 worth.

Plus P 9X17 and 9X18 are real close to std pressure 9X19. Clearing a double feed with the R9 could get kinda time consuming as it does not have a slide lock.

I'd like to have one to fool around with for a while, but I can't see the R9 filling any vacant need thats not allready covered by products that I know to be reliable.

salty.

 

[P95Carry]

Jim ... wet pack is maybe not the best thing to shoot at - the front surface is not flat ... the whole thing is somewhat convex. I think that can make a slight difference to a hit and subsequent bullet path. Also when trying to ''fit'' in a good many rounds in one pack .. there is the hope that two bullets do not contact and interfere with each other. Wish I had gelatin or water jugs.

Leaving that aside as a very minor point ... for sure the GS rounds in particular did behave badly .. OK Jim I understated the case and stand corrected but the aim was evaluation of ammo types in that gun .... and thus a means of looking for the ideal.

I get tumblers out of my Mini-14 when I shoot Russian ammo .. quite simply .. the gun hates the stuff. Put homeloads or Americal Eagle thru and you'd not see any problem.

A lot is being made of this and I understand it concerns folks ... I am personally tho only really interested in what ammo (HP types more than FMJ's) performs well - out of THIS gun ... no other. So far the GD's excel ... and this I find pleasing. I am setting up for another set of ammo tests in near future ..... looks like maybe another six or more types .... and we'll see what comes of that.

Bottom line for me is ..... I have the most pocketable piece that I am confident in .... and have another on the way. I choose my SP-101 for primary when I am able (mostly) ... with R9 as BUG but - do not feel disadvantaged if it's R9 only. If my gun digests a particular brand of ammo better than others .. to my satisfaction re reliability and performance ... then that will be used, with little or no major concern that another ''Brand X'' happens to produce a tumbler.

 

[dkochan]

I found my Rohrbaugh R9 to be much more concealable than my S&W 642. I also found that I shoot better with my R9 than my 642. I am happy with both guns. However, I switched to the R9 for pocket carry.

 

[Gunrunner]

Well, I like S&W's a lot, so my vote is for the J-frame. And for the most part I like revolvers better than autos. Not to say I don't like autos, as I've got a few. I'm wondering what kind of ammo you were using that caused those jams? Never had trouble with my Beretta at all. And I've shot Sigs that are the same, never jam.

 

[GeorgeH]

Rohrbaugh

I own J frames and a Rohrbaugh.

I bought the Rohrbaugh because of its footprint.

As to cost, my wristwatch cost more than my kitchen clock. Granted, my travel clock is accurate (it's one of the atomic clock radio automatic set models) and small enough to carry in my pocket, but I still prefer my wristwatch.

Same is true with the Rohrbaugh. Since I generally don't dress around my gun, the fact that this pistol can be concealed anywhere is a big plus to me. Important enough that I was willing to spend the money for it.I also own a Kahr, and it too is small, but not that small.

 

[DDGator]

Interesting to note, as pointed out to me by someone else, the poll right now is running 20% in favor of the R-9 -- in the Wheelguns forum. Not bad. Even more impressive when you consider there are several hundred R-9s "on the street" and I can't even begin to guess the number of j-frames out there...

 

[Bob79]

Yeah

Well it would also be interesting to see how many people who voted for the R-9 have actually seen one, let alone shot one, or own one.

Unless all the votes for the R-9 on this forum were directed here by persons from the Rohrbaugh forum

By the way, I think I'll do another poll under general, with Wheelguns vs. Semi-autos in general with regards to reliability

 

[DDGator]

Bob,

I agree that some who voted for the R-9 have never seen one. But, I bet an even larger portion of the people who voted for the j-frame have never seen an R-9 either!

This may, ultimately, just devolve into the time-worn revolver v. semi-auto debate...

 

[wunderkind]

J-Frame w/Gold Dots

Being on a middle class income, if I ever splurge on a thousand dollar gun, it's going to have the phrase "Colt 1911" or "Franchi" stamped on it somewhere.

Of course, if I see on for half that on the used shelves in the next few years, I'll have to take a closer look.

 

[Bob79]

New poll

I did a new poll under general, but its expanded to revolvers v. semis. I figured it wouldn't keep it so narrow, and we've got specific guns already here. And if people wanna think and compare the R-9 to a wheelgun when voting thats cool.