Midway sell's the S&W 500 die's. Thay have a steel one that comes with a "roll crimp". My question is what is a roll crimp? And the RCBS Carbide Sizer Die that sell says nothing about a roll crimp. Dose it come with one as well. Sorry for the dumb question's I am a newbie. Thanks
Roll Crimp?
- Thread starter Madmax
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stans
Member
You are just starting out with reloading or just starting out with shooting? Either way, 500 S&W may not be your best pick for a first time experience. Roll crimp is applied either during the bullet seating operation by the seating die or as a separate step following bullet seating. You really need to get some reloading manuals and read them all the way through before you start reloading. I recommend buying Lyman's 48th Edition manual first, then buy a couple more, like Speer, Hornady, and Sierra. They all contain excellent, detailed information on reloading and all the terms used in reloading.
No, I am a long time shooter just never reloaded in my life. I don’t know anyone that reloads so I am a little hesitant to get into in. But if you ever shoot an S&W 500 reloading is a must. With a box of ammo going for $40 for 20 rounds.
I would like to learn as much as possible about reloading before I try it my self from this board. I just got a copy of “The ABC’s of reloading†so after I read that I hope to have a better idea of what to do and what I need.
I have been surfing the web site’s to see what the reloading supply’s is going to cost. I see that Midway has two sets of dies for the 500. But in the description one say’s it has roll crimp. What I don’t understand is do both sets of die’s have a roll crimp or is that a special feature on one set?
I would like to learn as much as possible about reloading before I try it my self from this board. I just got a copy of “The ABC’s of reloading†so after I read that I hope to have a better idea of what to do and what I need.
I have been surfing the web site’s to see what the reloading supply’s is going to cost. I see that Midway has two sets of dies for the 500. But in the description one say’s it has roll crimp. What I don’t understand is do both sets of die’s have a roll crimp or is that a special feature on one set?
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Cortland
Member
Both dies would roll crimp. This is the standard type of crimp for revolver cartridges; it "rolls" the case mouth into a cannelure (groove) on the bullet. The other style of crimp is taper crimp, which just pushes the case mouth into the bullet at a very slight angle; this preserves the edge of the case mouth and is used for cartridges that headspace on the case mouth (i.e. semi-auto cartridges). Taper crimps are often done with a separate crimping die (whereas roll crimping is typically done with a single seat/crimp die).
If I were you I'd go for the RCBS carbide set (mostly because it's the only set that's carbide).
If I were you I'd go for the RCBS carbide set (mostly because it's the only set that's carbide).
Swamprabbit
Member
The 500 seems like it would not be an easy one to reload for and I don't think I would recommend "learning" on that cartridge. For something that big, I would think that a roll crimp would be a must to keep the bullets from working out of the cases during recoil. The issue comes in that crimping tension does affect pressure so this is where you have to be careful.
So you guy's think I should not attempt to reload my S&W 500 1st? I have a need to reload 45auto as well. Is this a better cal. to start to reload with. Or is it about the same skill level as the 500?
But i have to say the 500 is the bigger need for me right now. I just dont want to blow up! What to you S&W 500 guys think? Thanks for any input, Jared.
But i have to say the 500 is the bigger need for me right now. I just dont want to blow up! What to you S&W 500 guys think? Thanks for any input, Jared.
Cortland
Member
Well I think what they're saying is fooey. The .500 S&W is obviously a big cartridge that uses a lot of powder, but it should be no more difficult to reload than most other revolver rounds (.38 special etc.). So long as you meter and measure your loads carefully, apply a good roll crimp, and use the correct primers (large rifle if I'm not mistaken) you should be fine.
In my view, a straight wall cartridge is pretty much a straight wall cartridge. The 500 gets more powder and a roll crimp, the 45 gets less powder and a taper crimp. Big deal, I say
If you get set up to reload 500 S&W OR 45 auto single-stage, adding the extra caliber should really only cost the amount of the second die set and a shellholder (<$50) so you might as well get yourself outfitted to reload both. If it makes you more comfortable, load a few hundred 45s before going after the 500s -- but again, I don't think it's a big deal.
I've always thought that cartridges filled near case capacity (like 9mm) are the safest to load in that any double charge will result in spillage. But then again 9mm is more sensitive to seating depth than most cartridges... Just be careful
In my view, a straight wall cartridge is pretty much a straight wall cartridge. The 500 gets more powder and a roll crimp, the 45 gets less powder and a taper crimp. Big deal, I say
If you get set up to reload 500 S&W OR 45 auto single-stage, adding the extra caliber should really only cost the amount of the second die set and a shellholder (<$50) so you might as well get yourself outfitted to reload both. If it makes you more comfortable, load a few hundred 45s before going after the 500s -- but again, I don't think it's a big deal.I've always thought that cartridges filled near case capacity (like 9mm) are the safest to load in that any double charge will result in spillage. But then again 9mm is more sensitive to seating depth than most cartridges... Just be careful
How hard or easy is it to roll crimp. Is it something that is done by feel? Or is it a matter of setting the die right and just pulling the handle? Is the crimp the most important part of the reload to have right beside the powder amount? How hard is it to apply a good roll crimp? Thanks jared
Cortland
Member
With a traditional seat/crimp die (like you'll be using) this is how it goes:
Identify the load you want in a load manual (ideally several). The load manual should also indicate an overall length (OAL) for that particular bullet.
With a resized, primed, belled, and charged case in the shellholder, completely raise the ram. Now screw the seat/crimp die into the press. Eventually the crimping band in the die will make contact with the case mouth and you'll feel resistance. Back the die off 1/2 a turn or so and lock it down.
Now lower the ram and back the die's seating stem out a ways. Place the bullet on the case mouth, raise the ram to seat the bullet. Measure the cartridge for OAL with your calipers. Gradually screw the seating stem inwards and raise the ram again as needed until the correct OAL is achieved. With the correct OAL achieved, back the seating stem way out. Proper OAL may be dictated by a cannelure (groove) in the bullet into which the case mouth is rolled for crimping.
Now begin screwing the entire die body inwards. You can do this in maybe 1/4 turns, running the same cartridge used above into the die each time. The farther you screw the die in, the harder the crimp. As your screw the die in, you'll see the case mouth begin to get rolled into the bullet's cannelure. This is the role crimp that you're looking for. You can, of course, apply too much crimp by screwing the die body in too much -- this will be obvious in that it will deform the case. Once you're satisfied with the roll crimp (a solid crimp that rolls the case mouth in the bullet's cannelure but doesn't deform the case or bullet), you'll want to fix the setting of the die body -- that is, tighten the set screw on the lock ring. Then raise the cartridge into the die body one last time. With the ram raised, screw the seating stem in until it touches the bullet. Fix the setting on the seating stem, and you'll have a properly adjusted die.
Once you've got the die set properly, you needn't worry about it. The issue with the 500 S&W is that there's so much recoil, without a good crimp the non-firing rounds could get pulled apart under recoil. But again, there's no black magic about roll crimping.
Identify the load you want in a load manual (ideally several). The load manual should also indicate an overall length (OAL) for that particular bullet.
With a resized, primed, belled, and charged case in the shellholder, completely raise the ram. Now screw the seat/crimp die into the press. Eventually the crimping band in the die will make contact with the case mouth and you'll feel resistance. Back the die off 1/2 a turn or so and lock it down.
Now lower the ram and back the die's seating stem out a ways. Place the bullet on the case mouth, raise the ram to seat the bullet. Measure the cartridge for OAL with your calipers. Gradually screw the seating stem inwards and raise the ram again as needed until the correct OAL is achieved. With the correct OAL achieved, back the seating stem way out. Proper OAL may be dictated by a cannelure (groove) in the bullet into which the case mouth is rolled for crimping.
Now begin screwing the entire die body inwards. You can do this in maybe 1/4 turns, running the same cartridge used above into the die each time. The farther you screw the die in, the harder the crimp. As your screw the die in, you'll see the case mouth begin to get rolled into the bullet's cannelure. This is the role crimp that you're looking for. You can, of course, apply too much crimp by screwing the die body in too much -- this will be obvious in that it will deform the case. Once you're satisfied with the roll crimp (a solid crimp that rolls the case mouth in the bullet's cannelure but doesn't deform the case or bullet), you'll want to fix the setting of the die body -- that is, tighten the set screw on the lock ring. Then raise the cartridge into the die body one last time. With the ram raised, screw the seating stem in until it touches the bullet. Fix the setting on the seating stem, and you'll have a properly adjusted die.
Once you've got the die set properly, you needn't worry about it. The issue with the 500 S&W is that there's so much recoil, without a good crimp the non-firing rounds could get pulled apart under recoil. But again, there's no black magic about roll crimping.
cheygriz
member
Madmax,
The .45ACP is one of the easiest casrtridges in the world to reload. Just follow the instructions in the book and you can't go wrong. the .500 should be just as easy. I recommend starting with the .45, because components are so much cheaper, and you can get the "feel" of it before you start loading the big one.
BTW, I will second the idea of the Lyman reloading manual. All of the manuals are good, but IMHO, the Lyman manual is by far the best for the beginner.
I taught reloading classes for several years, and the Lyman Manual was the standard textbook that I used.
The .45ACP is one of the easiest casrtridges in the world to reload. Just follow the instructions in the book and you can't go wrong. the .500 should be just as easy. I recommend starting with the .45, because components are so much cheaper, and you can get the "feel" of it before you start loading the big one.
BTW, I will second the idea of the Lyman reloading manual. All of the manuals are good, but IMHO, the Lyman manual is by far the best for the beginner.
I taught reloading classes for several years, and the Lyman Manual was the standard textbook that I used.
Thanks again for all the help guy’s. I did pick up a copy of ABC’s and the Lyman’s 48th edition. And I am sure the books will cover this question but I will ask it now any ways. Everyone sells a 3-piece pistol die set. But everyone also has extra dies for sale. Like a crimp die or a sizer dies or Expander Die . Why do they sell the extra dies? Don’t the 3 dies that come on the set do every thing you need to do to reload that round? Or are thay just replacement dies if you brake one in the set? Thanks again, Jared
Cortland
Member
A three die set comes with a sizer die, an expander die, and a seat/crimp die. These are also sold separately (for whatever reason). There are also separate crimp (only) dies if you want to seat and crimp in separate steps; this is typically done for taper crimping.
30Cal
Member
You'll do just fine w/ the standard 3 die set.
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