Roller delayed blowback pistols...

[bc1023]

I'm about to pick up one of these Geiger pistols, which is a roller delayed blowback.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/03/31/german-geiger-grp-roller-delayed-blowback-pistol/

It got me thinking about which handguns in history use this complicated and expensive to produce design. I'm only aware of the HK P9S, Korth PRS, Korriphila HSP, and this Geiger. That's only four pistols and they're all German. Not that that's a big deal, but I thought there were more until I started taking inventory.

I know there are rifles designed this way and even AR style "pistols", but I'm talking traditional semi auto handguns.

There's a lot of knowledge on the forum. Can anybody think of something I'm missing?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

You know, I read that article and thought to myself "Wonder how long before BC1023 gets one and gives us a good picture thread?"


As to other roller-locking "handguns" the only thing that comes to mind are the various short-barrelled "pistol" derivatives of the MP5 and HK91, such as PTR and Century have marketed from time to time.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

CZ 52 has rollers in it. Does that count?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Calico 950 9mm pistol.

 

[bc1023]

CZ 52 has rollers in it. Does that count?

The CZ 52 is not a blowback design

 

[bc1023]

You know, I read that article and thought to myself "Wonder how long before BC1023 gets one and gives us a good picture thread?"


As to other roller-locking "handguns" the only thing that comes to mind are the various short-barrelled "pistol" derivatives of the MP5 and HK91, such as PTR and Century have marketed from time to time.

Yeah I’ve had it ordered for quite some time.

They are very low production. Only 30 or so made so far.

 

[barnetmill]

Ohen Cepel said: ↑
CZ 52 has rollers in it. Does that count?

The CZ 52 is not a blowback design

Its barrel is locked to the receiver for a short distance, then as it moves there is a space to allow the rollers to fall out of lock up. While rollers effect the lock up, it is not a delayed blow black design in which the barrel is fixed in place and rollers, wedges, toggle joint, etc cause a mechanical disadvantage that magnifies the effect of blow black operation.
The mechanical disadvantage of some delayed roller locked guns like the G3 required a lever system to readily allow the shooter to manipulate the bolt manually.

 

[bc1023]

Ohen Cepel said: ↑
CZ 52 has rollers in it. Does that count?

Its barrel is locked to the receiver for a short distance, then as it moves there is a space to allow the rollers to fall out of lock up. While rollers effect the lock up, it is not a delayed blow black design in which the barrel is fixed in place and rollers, wedges, toggle joint, etc cause a mechanical disadvantage that magnifies the effect of blow black operation.
The mechanical disadvantage of some delayed roller locked guns like the G3 required a lever system to readily allow the shooter to manipulate the bolt manually.

Yes the CZ 52 is a locked breech pistol.

The Delta AR Top Gun is a high end and very rare pistol that utilizes the CZ 52 design.

 

[bannockburn]

bc1023

Congrats on the acquisition of the Geiger! Wasn't even aware of such a pistol until I saw it this morning. I had an HK P9S in .45 many years ago. I was intrigued by the roller locking design and the use of polymers in the construction of the gun. It sure seemed like it was a complicated kind of arrangement with the roller lock assembly; sometime later I was reminded of this when I owned a Benelli B76! Liked the decocker but didn't care for the slide mounted safety and the somewhat bit of a reach to the trigger in DA mode (I have small hands and short fingers).

 

[MAKster]

Yeah. There is a reason why roller delayed blowback never caught on for handguns. Unnecessary for cartridges less powerful than 9mm and too expensive to manufacture compared to a tilting barrel design.

 

[Slamfire]

I'm about to pick up one of these Geiger pistols, which is a roller delayed blowback.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/03/31/german-geiger-grp-roller-delayed-blowback-pistol/

It got me thinking about which handguns in history use this complicated and expensive to produce design. I'm only aware of the HK P9S, Korth PRS, Korriphila HSP, and this Geiger. That's only four pistols and they're all German. Not that that's a big deal, but I thought there were more until I started taking inventory.

I know there are rifles designed this way and even AR style "pistols", but I'm talking traditional semi auto handguns.

There's a lot of knowledge on the forum. Can anybody think of something I'm missing?

This pistol has to have flutes in the chamber, such as the P7 uses



this is how the flutes work





something I have read, for the rifles at least, fluted chambers need hard brass. Soft brass will stick to the chamber, defeating the entire purpose of the flutes and failing to extract.

Anyway, after shooting, make sure to use a chamber brush and find the brass the pistol likes.

 

[Jim Watson]

This pistol has to have flutes in the chamber, such as the P7 uses

The Graygun, a P7M13 built into an IPSC gun by Bruce Gray, had a smooth chamber for shooting 9mm Major with heavy bullets. The compensator was built into the slide, not hung on the barrel, therefore the muzzle blast against the baffle contributed to delay.

 

[Slamfire]

The Graygun, a P7M13 built into an IPSC gun by Bruce Gray, had a smooth chamber for shooting 9mm Major with heavy bullets. The compensator was built into the slide, not hung on the barrel, therefore the muzzle blast against the baffle contributed to delay.

There are some clever designs out there. The bud who shot those cases let me handle, but not dismantle his P7. I think the doom of his pistol was the cost, and the squeeze cocker mechanism. You can pull the trigger, and then the cocking strap, and the gun will fire! It is supposed to be pull strap, and only pull trigger if needed. Remember the Cop lady who thought she had a tazer, and it was a gun? Sometimes these simple things get mixed up under stress. The machining was amazing and look at the price of them now, on Gunbroker, and they are even more expensive.

I never saw a pistol cycle so fast. The movement of the slide was faster than human perception.

 

[Jim Watson]

I had a P7, early model just after the PSP with heel catch.
My problem was that I was taught to take a "firing grip" in the holster. Well, that means a P7 is cocked in the holster. That made me nervous, so I devised kind of a "plucking" draw. That was safer, but it was different from any other pistol I had. Plus, the move was so different that while I could pluck, draw, squeeze, and shoot IF THAT WAS ALL I WAS DOING. A few rounds out of a conventional gun and I had to relearn the squeeze gun. So I sold it. Glad to get what I had paid for it, an easy double or triple investment if I had sat on it a while.

 

[Slamfire]

So I sold it. Glad to get what I had paid for it, an easy double or triple investment if I had sat on it a while

The best time to buy or sell is always obvious in hindsight.
At least you had one, now I would like one, after passing past the surplus versions floating around.

 

[bc1023]

bc1023

Congrats on the acquisition of the Geiger! Wasn't even aware of such a pistol until I saw it this morning.

Thanks.

Well I’m glad I got in when I did. I inquired about one in 45ACP, so I could have a matching set, but the price went from $9000 to $16,000.

Ouch. I should have ordered two last year.