Rossi Overland - firing failure issue

[Spartan2112]

This is an older Interarms Rossi Overland - last imported in 1978 to my knowledge. It's a fun little gun for busting clays - and I can hunt almost anything with it, but the left barrel fails to fire about 20% of the time.

Definitely light hits to the primer - but differing opinions on how to fix.

My amateur eyes tell me that the left hand hammer is not angled in as much as the right one. That is my observation and best guess as to why it's not hitting the firing pin hard enough. Now the professionals weigh in:

Three gunsmiths, three opinions on how to fix it. Two have actually looked at it.

#1 (who has not seen it) wanted to install a new hammer spring before making any hammer adjustments.

#2 wants to heat and bend the hammer.

#3 says bending is a bad idea - but wants to sand down the inner surface of the hammer so it rides closer to the sideplate. He pointed out something I had missed - that the left hand hammer sits out a little farther.

On close inspection, fit and finish on this gun is not 100% (metal to wood, etc.) - then again it's not a Purdey, nor should I ever pretend it to be.

Any opinions on which route to take? Thanks.

 

[kirbythegunsmith]

Details

Misfires of exposed hammer guns can be just as perplexing as internal hammer malfunctions.
The hammer may be striking the pin at an angle that induces more side load than you would want present to avoid reduction in pin impact to the primer, and that could possibly be influenced by alteration of the hammer angle presentation vs. the sideplate, for example.
Then again, there may be some other fault that is internal within the spring mechanism or shaft pivot clearance.
If you feel the hammer tension when cocking and the pair feel similar, I would be wondering why anybody would replace the spring before considering the most pertinent problem(s) that is NOT the spring.
There may be some fault with the firing pin parts rather than the hammer spring.
I certainly would not consider heating and bending the hammer as a viable solution.
If your description of the hammer not being angled as much as the other refers to the amount of hammer arc of travel, then the sear may have been excessively cut away on the sear arm or hammer edge and fail to preserve enough hammer travel arc to build sufficient impact force from cocked to firing position- almost like a "half-cock"- is that what you mean?
That would require an individualized repair by a pro, and I would rather fit replacement parts in that situation, if possible, rather than reworking parts that were over-cut, unless no other practical option existed.

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[Spartan2112]

Hammer Shotgun Blues

Kirby,

Thanks for the input.

What I thought was a really cool purchase is becoming one of these: :banghead:

I tried the excercise you suggested - the tension on both hammers feels the same when one cocks them back.

I also noticed that, when cocked, the left hand hammer does not sit as far back as the other - hence it may not have enough travel to hit the firing pin hard enough.

The "angle" to which I am referring is the inward angle of the hammer faces towards the centerline. Looking down on the gun from above, the lack of symmetry is obvious. As I said - fit and finish in nowhere near 100%.

I am leary of making adjustments involving torches and/or sandpaper to parts that are difficult to obtain. It may well be an internal problem with the sear as you described. I need to find a gunsmith reasonably close to me (NE Ohio)who is willing to take a look at it and take it apart.

I initially figured that an sidelock style gun like this ought to be looked at by someone who specializes in antiques and antique reproductions. Unfortunately I was brusquely refused by a local "black powder" shop whose name will go unmentioned.

What is it about this gun that no one seems to want to do the job properly, or even look at it?

 

[kirbythegunsmith]

Details

The Rossi guns are not known for highest quality, so many repair problems are not just a case of simple parts replacement that seems to be the limit of expertise shown by a fair number of goofs masquerading as gunsmiths.
You can also consider sending the gun to a more distant shop (shooters send me guns/barrels/etc. from both ends of the country), if none of the closer shops gives you encouragement towards a restoration of function or confidence in their abilities.

I won't say that repairs are impossible, but those guns can sometimes have more worms inside than you might have wished to dig. If it was at my shop, I would try to make the firing reliable without repairing more than what was necessary, but still make note of other problems that could cause situational deterioration sooner rather than later, so that the owner could make prudent decisions about expenses and budget concerns vs. selling something that might turn into a stinker sometime later, especially if not all recommended fixes were applied.

One of the reasons that I mention that I have gotten a full-time school of gunsmithing certificate is that it demonstrates a commitment to basic knowledge acquisition lacking in somebody failing to do more than examine a few books, videos, and old guns apart and figure that they are ready to learn on your irons. That might be sufficient for simple jobs like recoil pad installations, but what about reworking a classic double?
I have had to rework stuff "repaired" by those that learned by mail-order courses or by looking over a shoulder a few to little times.

The same can be said for car mechanics that have no schooling vs. ASE certified technicians- somebody has actually said that they know a certain subject- not just the word of the dude with a name tag sewn on his shirt.
I don't personally mind a repairman of limited education or experience working on something familiar, but when they stretch too far into unknown territory, you get the complete mess that landed in my lap not long ago.
The mess seemed to get worse with every part that I removed, and was so bad an example that I used some of the details and pictured problems for my most recent article just posted in a new thread.

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