Round testing/Barrel cleaning ?

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Cypress

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I was wandering what most of you guys did as far as barrel cleaning while shooting for load development. I have always cleaned the barrel with copper solvent to a mirror finish then swabbed between groups with hoppes. This has always worked pretty well until recently. I have an Browning .270 that refuses to group at all when clean. I discovered this after getting frustrated at $150 worth of premium bullet testing and not finding a decent load. The last box of bullets (Swift Sciroccos) shot 2.5" groups at best. I decided that would have to be good enough so I loaded up the rest. I took it out the other day to get ready for "hog season" and started shooting. Groups started out at aound 2" but within 12-15 rounds tightened up to 3/4". Have I just been going about this the wrong way or what? Most of my other guns shoot great after being cleaned and two fouling shots but accuracy begins to fall off after 20-30 rounds. I assume every rifle has its own preferences but I've never encountered one that was this finicky. What are your thoughts ???
 
I'm very interested in this question, too. When I do load development, I do it first, before my other plinking / practice shooting, so I'm not working with a hot / overly dirty barrel. I shoot an AR15 with a stainless HB 20" barrel, and since I usually only shoot 25-50 rounds in one load-development session (sometimes 75 or 100, though, depending on how many work-ups I'm trying to do), I don't bother cleaning in-between. And actually, my rifle usually shoots AT LEAST as good AFTER I do load development as before - which makes me wonder if I should be doing more than 1 or 2 foulers before firing off my first group... maybe I'm doing them a dis-service by shooting them through an unusually clean / cool barrel?
 
Funny, but I just answered the same complaint from a guy on another board yesterday concerning a Browning X-Bolt .300 Whizzem.

He said it throws shots all over the paper through a clean barrel, until 5 - 10 shots have been fired to foul it. Then it shoots under MOA.

I suggested he just not clean it during hunting / shooting season.

I think I would do the same in your situation.

rcmodel
 
I've definitely noticed that high mileage barrels shoot poorly when they're cleaned aggressively.
 
I'm wondering now,if I select the best load on a clean barrel,if it would be the best load in a dirty barrel. It's hard to maintain the correct amount of uncleanliness. All that testing, all that agravation,all those dollars fired into that stump. I think I'm gonna be sick!!!!
 
I think this thread may have solved a problem I had with my 25-06. After the last p-dog hunt I super cleaned the bore. A year later I shot it six times for group and was way disappointed in the groups, +1". It used to shoot <.3". May be I need to shoot a few more times. Good weekend project. Thanks all.
 
Funny, but I just answered the same complaint from a guy on another board yesterday concerning a Browning X-Bolt .300 Whizzem.

He said it throws shots all over the paper through a clean barrel, until 5 - 10 shots have been fired to foul it. Then it shoots under MOA.

I suggested he just not clean it during hunting / shooting season.
Click to expand...

I take it you're not a fan of the WSM line of cartridges? Or the Browning A bolt?

The 300 WSM has made it's mark on the rifle scene, even though many said it would fade to an obscure following of a few fanatics.

Mine does the same thing. It shoots 2" groups after being cleaned, then 10-15 shots later starts to settle down to it's ¾- 7/8 inch normal accuracy.

I hunt with "dirty" barrels, in ALL my rifles. I want to know where shot#1, 2, 3, and 4 are going to hit. Some rifles will
"walk" from 2-3 inches from where they end up after 2-3 shots. No thanks! I want them all in the same place.

As for the "dirty" word, we aren't back in the old black powder days. Smokeless powder and non-corrosive primers allow us to leave a barrel fouled for extended periods of time. Without fear of rust. I don't mean we should store rifles year 'round without cleaning. But sighting in and then hunting over a month period won't result in a damaged barrel. Of course hunting in rain would require at least a dry patch to remove the moisture.

I prefer the term fouled to saying it's dirty.
 
Some rifles shoot best when spotlessly clean. Some like to have a few fouling shots fired first. That's one reason why it's important to shoot more than just one or two 3-shot groups with a particular load in order to evaluate its performance. Granted, it's also much more time consuming, expensive, and produces more wear and tear on your equipment.

Still, I wish I had the time and money to shoot out a few more rifle barrels! :evil:
 
I take it you're not a fan of the WSM line of cartridges? Or the Browning A bolt?
Click to expand...
I didn't say that at all.

I just thought it odd that two Brownings cropped up in two days with the same somewhat odd behavior.

We know almost all rifles don't shoot the same with a super-clean barrel compared to a fouled barrel.

But most don't require a half box of ammo to re-foul them.

Maybe the browning barrels are just so finely finished it takes awhile longer, or something.

rcmodel
 
I put it to the test. Well, maybe it was just an excuse to cut work and go to the range, but inquiring minds MUST know.
Gun: Rem 700ADL 30.06
Ammo: (mine) Rem Brass, Rem PSP 165g, WLR Primer, 57.4g H4350
Range 200y
Very light cross breeze, about 80 degrees.
All shots in each group fired 2 minutes apart, 15 minutes between rounds.
Rounds 1-10 - Super clean scrubbed and dry mopped.
Clean.jpg

Rounds 51-60 with "fouled" barrel.
Dirty.jpg

Usually by the time I get 50 rounds down the tube, I start getting worst, but today was a good day, very relaxed and fresh from a good nights sleep and a light breakfast.
 
Pictures are so big I can't get all the bullet holes on the screen at the same time to look at the groups!

Could you make them smaller?

rcmodel
 
Brothers in laws place near Sulpher Springs. We cleared a lane on the backside of the pond and use the dam as a backstop. I think the public range in Desoto or Lancatser area has a 200 yard range. Someone told me the one in Denton county has a 300 yard one.
 
Sorry to blow the browning theory out of the water but mine is a FN Mauser action Browning from my grandad. Seriously doubt that there are any similarities between this and a new A-bolt.

My question still lingers.......How do you test reloads for a gun that shoots best after 15 rounds but starts to fall off after 30-40 rounds without wasting A LOT of fouling rounds?
 
That's a tough sell. Honestly, I just loaded up 20 fouling rounds to shoot before I do my work-ups on Monday... sure I'll enjoy shooting them - maybe practice shooting with my new sling (Tactical Interventions Quick Cuff) from the prone position - but whether I enjoy it or not, I'm going to blow them as foulers. I figure that, to define an absolutely TOPS load one time, it's worth 20 - or even 40, if it came to it - foulers.

So I guess the answer is, enjoy shooting them, if you can, and then you won't think of it as blowing them :)
 
and then you won't think of it as blowing them
Click to expand...
For me at least, the groups got a little tighter as the session progressed. I spent several hours at it, and not once did I ever think that I was wasting ammo. I enjoy every shot as if it were the first. I can always go home and make some more! If I were buying factory PSP and Hornady interlocks I might be a bit more conservative, but that's why we are here in the reloading section isn't it?
 
I enjoy shooting as much as the next guy but when I'm trying to find out if my gun likes a particular bullet, I would like to think a box of 100 is enough for testing. Heck, I'd even like to have a few left over to actually hunt with. Swift Scirrocos aren't a dime a dozen you know. Maybe I'm just too cheap!!!
 
Yeah, I understand that... I saw you're shooting .270, so I know that is going to get more expensive than .223 Rem, which I shoot... I guess the only other suggestion I could offer is to foul your barrel with cheap bullets before you get to the Sciroccos.. I shoot mostly 55gr FMJBT, and especially if I'm not looking for something special on paper... just a thought, but I do understand your frustration.
 
Duly noted on the cost of premium bullets. I do most practicing/range plinking with Rem PSP, at 16 bucks a box. I hunt with Hornady interbond at 42 bucks a box. I will run 15 or 20 of the high priced stuff right before hunting just to make sure the loads are right.
 
As far as fouling with cheaper bullets goes, I've read that some rifles won't shoot some bullets very well until all the fouling from a different alloy bullet is removed. I don't really buy the theory because I have yet to see proof but it may be something to consider. I guess I'll have to conduct some experiments. It's amazing how much time and money you can spend in this game and still know so little. I guess thats what keeps it entertaining.
 
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